Ground-up studio build in Perth

[Birdsteeth]

Stuart, thank you for going above and beyond (as usual) and helping everyone on this forum. I'm amazed at the detail you go into and the time it must take! I don't feel like such a dunce anymore! And thanks Steve for taking such an interest in the build, I did another full day in the room today.. Gyprocking, sealing, gyprocking, sealing!!! Bring back any memories???My god, what a crap job.

My timber will arrive next Thursday, so I have time to ring around and find suitable insulation. I'm finding this part difficult as everything seems to be called something different and Perth suppliers are different to Melbourne etc.. It's amazing how suppliers don't know specifics of the product they're selling.

[Soundman2020]

Stuart, thank you for going above and beyond (as usual) and helping everyone on this forum. I'm amazed at the detail you go into and the time it must take!

You are VERY welcome! It's comments like yours that make it all worthwhile.

When I first came here, many years ago (!), a lot of people helped me on my way too, and they got me totally hooked on this highly addictive drug called "acoustics". So much so that it changed from just being a hobby to being what I do for a living now. Thanks to those guys, who treated me so well back then, I found a new career. Like you, I was impressed by their willingness to share, to answer even dumb questions, and their attention to detail. So basically I'm just giving back what I got: returning the favor, so to speak. "Passing it forward" to the next guy. They helped me selflessly, so the least I can do is to help others.

Maybe you'll be able to do the same down the line, as your build progresses!

To be very honest, I totally enjoy helping out others, because when I don't know the answer to some obscure question, it makes me go do some more research, and figure out until I understand it, then I can answer it. So I learned something new too, and that's always good. The time I spend doing that helps me as much as it helps the person who asked, so I view it as an investment in me, as well as in others. What could be better than that? Even when I'm explaining something for the 59th time that has already been asked and answered, I still don't get bored, because simply writing it down again refreshes my own memory.

So yeah, thanks for the kind words! It's always good to hear that people appreciate the efforts of the forum embers who do take the time to return a bit of what they got.

I don't feel like such a dunce anymore!

The only "dunce" in studio building are the ones who don't ask questions, don't spend the time to design, and start building before they are ready. So you certainly are not a dunce! Far from it.

- Stuart -

[stevev]

My timber will arrive next Thursday, so I have time to ring around and find suitable insulation. I'm finding this part difficult as everything seems to be called something different and Perth suppliers are different to Melbourne etc.. It's amazing how suppliers don't know specifics of the product they're selling.

JOHNS BUILDING SUPPLIES

205 Star Street, Welshpool

(08) 9362 4744

that's what I got when I typed 'bradford soundscreen perth' in to google. That's the stuff I used in my MSM at 24kg/m fibreglass. I used 110mm batts which they may need to order specifically. At least you'll be able to start getting an idea of what sort of cost you're up for.

steve

[Birdsteeth]

Great, thanks Steve. I'll go for a drive out there today... Is anyone else like me and hates calling people? I'd rather go into the store, look at the product and then ask questions.

[stevev]

Is anyone else like me and hates calling people? I'd rather go into the store, look at the product and then ask questions.

Nah, I'm definitely a ringer-upperer

I found that doing a lot of research on this forum and elsewhere was invaluable before talking to any sales guys. It means you're loaded with the right info before someone trys to talk you in to buying 10kg/m3 'acoustic insulation' or other kinds of magic (overpriced) acoustic plaster board

[Birdsteeth]

Hi guys, I've finally finished beefing up the roof... Wow, what a terrible job. So I've got 20 bags of the insulation sitting here that I can't use in the cavity, do you think it'd be worthwhile putting it in between the rafters like in the picture? Do you reckon it'd help at all with insulating heat/cold or even make a difference to the isolation?

[stevev]

Hi guys, I've finally finished beefing up the roof... Wow, what a terrible job.

yeah, cutting small bits of plaster isn't much of a laugh, and there's a few issues going on in that pic that need to be addressed.

I can see plywood underneath the plasterboard there which means the extra layer of plasterboard isn't doing what it's meant to. With beefing-up you have to cover the entire surface. no gaps. You have to seal all the air gaps where the extra layer of plaster meets the rafters. If you dont do this you effectvely have 'holes' in your isolation as the sound will be leaking out of all the gaps and unsealed sections.

There also seems to be an issue with the MDF that you've used to span the gap between the top plate and the ceiling. I'm guessing that it's only one layer thick, which means all the work you've done with your brick walls for isolation will be void, as bass frequencies will hit that MDF and go through it like a freight train Once you beef that up it also needs to be sealed air tight. Any of those gaps around the rafters and between the MDF/ceiling join also need to be sealed air tight. This is why you'll go through many, many, many cases of acoustic sealant

I know that all sounds quite pedantic, but that's pretty much studio building in a nut shell

So I've got 20 bags of the insulation sitting here that I can't use in the cavity, do you think it'd be worthwhile putting it in between the rafters like in the picture?

You might not have quite got the gist of the cavity here. I haven't read back through the whole thread, but i'm pretty sure you're doing a ' room within a room' construction? If so, then you'll be constructing a bunch of walls inside your brick shell that won't touch your brick shell in any way. No screws, nails, glue, skyhooks....nothing. This also applies to the ceiling. you'l be building a ceiling that rests on those internal walls that does not touch your existing ceiling in any way. No screws, nails, glue, skyhooks, nothing That means you also have a cavity between the existing ceiling and the new, independant ceiling you'll build. That cavity gets treated like the wall cavities with the same density of insulation. So with all that in mind, i think you have a bunch of insulation bound for ebay.

Hope that all makes sense and sorry if it's a bit of a downer on the build, but these are the details that you really need to get right. You've gone to a lot of trouble (and expense) with the shell so far, and it's looking great....but this is a crucial part of the build that can't be rushed. (not that any of it can be rushed. Took me 3 years to get over the line )

all the best,

steve

[Birdsteeth]

G'day Steve,

Thanks for the reply. That photo is a fair few days old, I've been doing exactly what you suggested in beefing up the MDF with gyprock and GreenGlue as well as sealing the gaps with the GreenGlue sealant. I have a problem though with cutting bits of gyprock that are say 2cm by 900mm to go in the larger gaps and sealing them with the sealant will send me broke . Do you think I could use some joint compound http://www.bunnings.com.au/gyprock-csr- ... d_p0730736 to fill those bigger gaps? Would the density be similar?

Oh, and the insulation is going on Gumtree... I've let it go haha.

Thanks,

Sam.

[stevev]

I've been doing exactly what you suggested in beefing up the MDF with gyprock and GreenGlue as well as sealing the gaps with the GreenGlue sealant.

if you can it'd be better to use 16mm fyrchek plaster for this part, as it has better density and rigidity for the job. It's also the one you want to use for the build of your internal walls.

Do you think I could use some joint compound

I don't think that'll work too well in that application. The gap will be too wide and it'll tend to slump and then crack once it's dry. It's really made for thin coverage like the joins between plasterboard and for finishing the beveled joins. I hate to say it, but you're probably stuck with cutting small bits of plaster, or MDF, or ply that have a sililar density.

steve

[Birdsteeth]

I'm back! The studio build was put on hold for a bit with the safe arrival of my first child, Clyde! Over the past couple of weeks I've finally managed to finish off beefing up and sealing the outer leaf. One of my mates who I play in bands with is a carpenter and he was responsible for kicking me in the butt and helping me get on with it.

The plan now is to build the live room first and get it completely finished so at least I'll have somewhere to practice and if any thing's not working I'll still have a bit of access to the outer leaf. Next step is to buy all my Soundscreen insulation and get busy framing up the walls and ceiling.

Sam.

[stevev]

looking good there Sam. everything looks sealed up like a goddamn submarine

A couple of quick questions, just out of intrest.....why so many small bits of plaster? were they all offcuts from the house build? (I ask becasue you would have gone through a hell of a lot of sealant sealing up so many small pieces)

Why is the roof 'stick built' on RSJ's and not trusses? (just curious)


all the best,

Steve

[Birdsteeth]

G'day Steve,

The roof has 15mm marine ply on top of the rafters and that's what I've fixed the 16mm gyprock onto, on the underside with a layer of Green Glue. The sheets of gyprock I bought are 3m x 1.2m, I had to cut the sheets anywhere between 830mm and 870mm to fit in between the rafters. As I did most of that work myself, that was about as much weight as I could handle without falling off the scaffold! The smaller sheets on the wall are beefing up and sealing over the 'plugs' I made with MDF to seal up the gaps where the rafters go over the top of the wall and into the eaves. So yeah, I used heaps of sealant but I'm super paranoid about any gaps, and the way things are going what's another few hundred bucks on sealant between friends?

I thought they'd use trusses for the roof as well, the way they did it with the struts on the LVLs just seems to be the way they do things over here in the West. The roof on the house built at the same time is exactly the same as the studio. When we designed the house plus the room, I just asked for the biggest room they could possibly fit on the block and that's what they came back with. It's funny, a mate of mine just built a house in Victoria and it was a stud-frame build, you never see that in W.A., it's all double-brick over here.

Sam.

[Birdsteeth]

Oh, here's a question I had too... I've been reading up on the Bradford Soundscreen insulation and found something interesting in the specs for the different batts - the 70mm 2.0 batts have a higher density than the 110mm ones. Would I be better off with the higher density or does the 40mm thickness difference negate any higher density? The cost is about the same between the two, so that's not a factor; just wondering which would be more effective? Or am I being too pedantic (if there's such a thing in studio building haha). Plus I think, unless I'm mistaken, the R numbers refer to thermal ratings which have nothing to do with what we use it for?

[Birdsteeth]

... and another thing I've been thinking. Has anyone ever done a combination of inside-out walls with normal walls? I was thinking of making the walls in 1500mm sections on the ground as they'd be easier to stand up with 3 or so people lifting and the thought came to me. Is there any reason not to do it sound-wise? I see plenty of studios with hard gyprock surfaces on the inside and then diffusers hung on the walls, this would be the same outcome built into the room? Hopefully the pictures explain it as well.

Thanks,

Sam.

[stevev]

I've been reading up on the Bradford Soundscreen insulation and found something interesting in the specs for the different batts - the 70mm 2.0 batts have a higher density than the 110mm ones. Would I be better off with the higher density or does the 40mm thickness difference negate any higher density? The cost is about the same between the two, so that's not a factor; just wondering which would be more effective?

that's interesting, I didn't see that difference when i was looking at them for my build. Given that it's around a 7% difference there's no real advantage to using the 70mm batts. if it was a different product and came in at 30kg/m3 then it could be worth it. You're better off going with the 110's which means you have a wider cavity, wand that is what lowers the resonant frequency. The insulation is there as a damper for the 'spring' in MSM walls so making the spring around 40% narrower (70mm batts) and raising the resonant freq, but only gaining a 7%increase in your damper isn't worth it.

Has anyone ever done a combination of inside-out walls with normal walls?

I also thought of doing this in my build but didn't for reasons that were explained to me. If you build all your walls inside out you then have flexibility with how much absorbtion and what type you put in the cavity. You can also seal up sections and make parts in to helmholtz resonators pretty easily. You can also just leave out the insulation if you want less damping for the room.

If you go with half-half and then decide it's too 'live' in the room, you then have to build all your traps and hang them which is a lot more work than just putting insulation in the cavity.

You'd be surprised at how large a section of wall you can lift up in one go either by yourself or with another pair of hands. I was able to lift my side walls by myself, approx 2.4m high x 4m long, by myself once i'd raised and propped them at around 1200mm high using a 4WD high lift jack.

The end walls were 2.4 high rising to 3.3 in the center and around 5.5 m wide I did the same way but with another person which wasn't easy, but we got there. Three people would have been better for those

all the best,

Steve