Home Studio Construction (existing room in rental loft)

heavymetal · Post by **heavymetal** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:05 am

Hello,

Have read through this forum in dept. It really is an amazing resource. I am bulding a home studio for mixing and line recording and would appreciate some help with selection of building materials.

The room as it currently stands is 107" x 135" with 10 ft ceilings. The floors are hardwood (2" thick), supported by steel beams (the building is a converted factory).

I share one wall with a neighbor (135" long by 10ft high). The walll is built as follows:

1" drywall // 4" airspeace filled with insulation // 1" drywall

The three internal walls:

1" drywall // 2.5" airspeace filled with insulation // 1" drywall

The ceiling is tin over 2" hardwood).

I am currenlty sealing existing holes, wall to wall, and wall to ceiling seams with USGA Acoustical Sealant.

I plan on dropping the celing with acoustical tiles and insulation.

Any recomendations for the walls and floor? I cannot tear down existing walls.

Thanks!

heavymetal · Post by **heavymetal** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:57 am

I should add that:

1) my next door neighbor plays the drums (I need to dampen/block him out) 2) that there is a cofee shop donwstairs (low level music and conversational noise)
3) and that the neighbors upstairs like to blare their music.

thanks.

the dreamer · Post by **the dreamer** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:28 pm

hi,
read this
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html
and
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2125
(especially the temporary faq)

you get a good picture then of how and why to construct in a certain way.
afterwards the guys here can go into detail with you.

I share one wall with a neighbor (135" long by 10ft high). The walll is built as follows:
1" drywall // 4" airspeace filled with insulation // 1" drywall

if this is the neighbour playing drums and you still hear im very loud, that's an aarrgh. this is already a mass/spring/mass system wall. do both leafs share the same stud or is it staggerd studs or one leaf resilient mounted???
if they are on the same stud, i would, if possible remove the drywall on my side and do a double stud or resilient mounted wall.

it seems you need good soundproofing all over. read the stuff i mentioned and you get the picture.

heavymetal · Post by **heavymetal** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:00 am

Thanks for your reply "the dreamer",

I cannot remove the gypsum on my side of the wall, so it looks like I'll be dealing with an existing mass/spring/mass system.

I found this diagram in the forum:

<IMG SRC="http://www.domesticsoundproofing.co.uk/partitions2.gif" border=0 alt="" width=471 height=107>

Looks like the 4th options from the left would be best? Would doubling up the gypsum layer on the inner most wall help?

From my readings in the forum, it looks like I should start with the floated floor regardless of which wall i build?

I'm also having trouble finding diagrams for floating a floor on top of an existing hardwood floor. Any suggestions.

thanks!

the dreamer · Post by **the dreamer** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:24 am

for the floor: the sae link i mentioned. go to construction...then floor.
that's a start.

i'm not sure if the 4th would be the best option cause it gives you a triple leaf-system which normaly is a no no. if i got it right it will weaken TL in certain frequencies.

maybe you could put up more layers on the existing leaf and could you also do it at your neighbours side? at least it would increase the mass a lot.
check out how much the floor can bare before you do a floating floor or adding a lot of mass to the walls. or do it above loadbaring walls.

heavymetal · Post by **heavymetal** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:33 pm

thanks again the dreamer,

btw, where are you in the alps? tu parles francais? since three leaves appears to potentialy worsen the problem, i'll start by adding mass (gypsum) to my side of the wall (sealing the new layer with acoustical sealant).

Are you saying the 3rd layout from the left is better than tyhe 4th?

merci.

the dreamer · Post by **the dreamer** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:02 pm

je parlais un petit francais. je pense i forgot most of it

i'm from austria. german speaking here. are you from france or canada?

Are you saying the 3rd layout from the left is better than tyhe 4th?

no, if you look below it's even worse. if you cant remove things my guess would be to go for more mass. you see what happens in the last option.
maybe steve has a better idea?

btw, be carefull what you do when floating the floor.
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 8574#18574
http://www.recording.org/ftopict-22542-hvac.html
paul woodlock knows a lot about this stuff.
he's got this monster thread going on over at studiotips.

heavymetal · Post by **heavymetal** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:19 am

I'll check out those floor threads, thanks.

I'm from France but living in NYC.

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:40 pm

Hey Heavy, can you update your profile to include location? makes things easier when we're asked for recommendations, thanks -

The rule of thumb for wall (ceiling, floor, window, door, etc) isolation is simple - mass, air, mass. Period. This is not always possible, especially if you're not building from scratch - so the second best thing is, as dreamer said, try to compensate with what you can ACCESS. This means that if you can get at both sides of a wall, adding mass to both sides will help transmission loss. Not as much as removing any CENTER mass will, but if it's your only choice then that's what you should do.

If you can do a sketch of EVERY layer of each wall, and post the spacing of the floor's steel beams (length between supports, distance between adjacent beams, any other framing that might be between the 2" wood and the steel, so I can see exactly what is already there, then we can figure out what you need to do for best results... Steve

heavymetal · Post by **heavymetal** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:46 am

Hi Knightfly,

Thanks for your response. I'm located in NYC (added to my profile).

I am trying to soundproof an existing room for line recording and mixing. My next door neighbor plays the drums and I am as concerned about keeping "his" sound out as keeping "my" noise from reaching him. The tenant downstairs is a coffee shop with ambient noise/music during daytime hours. I am less concerned about them hearing me than vice versa. The aim of the raised floor is also to minimize flanking noise to/from my next door neighbor.

I have read through the forum extensively. I am aware of the need to avoid a triple leaf system. It is also impossible for me to remove the internal gypsum layer from the existing walls.

Following are three possible builds for the floor and walls of my room.

The first does create a triple leaf system. I was hoping, however, that sufficient decoupling (from the existing floor), and the multiple drywall layers would offset the resulting STC loss:

http://amalgamatedsuperstar.com/room1.gif

The second build option plays on mass to raise the STC:

http://amalgamatedsuperstar.com/room2.gif

Is there a limit to the number of gypsum layers I should add to my side of the wall? I read that the law of diminishing returns may apply after 3 addtional layers.

The third option is a variant on the second one:

http://amalgamatedsuperstar.com/room3.gif

Which build offers the best STC? Is there a better way to build this room out?

Thanks!

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:28 am

Before you go much further, it would help to know what your drummer neighbor has done to HIS SIDE of the offending wall - if the two of you can work in harmony, you may BOTH benefit - if you aren't already shooting at each other, why not have a sit-down with him to see what's what? Steve

heavymetal · Post by **heavymetal** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:08 pm

hi Knightfly,

The drummer hasn't done anything to treat his side. Doesn't look like he's amenable to constructing any kind of riser for his kit either.

o

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:04 am

"The room as it currently stands is 107" x 135" with 10 ft ceilings. The floors are hardwood (2" thick), supported by steel beams (the building is a converted factory)." - Converted into WHAT - living space, offices, ??

Doesn't sound like your drummer neighbor is much different than many; doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself - pity, the world already has more than enough a-holes. Are there any "rules" in this place that he's breaking, or don't you want to go there?

Next question; do you know (or can you find out) more specifics about your floor, such as size and spacing and LENGTH between supports, of those steel beams? it's possible that a floated room, even though it's not still 2-leaf construction, may be your only option (short of finding places with nicer, more cooperative neighbors)... Steve

John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Home Studio Construction (existing room in rental loft)

Home Studio Construction (existing room in rental loft)

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Room diagrams for Soundproofing an existing room