I believe in Acoustic Sciences Tube Traps.....

[timogiodeson]

Yea... can someones explain to me why back in Europe, almost all of the band rehearsals spaces where made with Eggs cartons , curtains and polystyrene too!??? 100% coverage!
I never complained about the sound,! Nice warm sound, I never suffered ear fatigue...! Was just the only option out there for musicians !
there was not Internet at the time....

Now instead many musicians end up spending their time in forum trying to figure out why they don't like their rooms made with " acoustic foam or fiberglass panels, the only accepted acoustic treatment today unless you are a super man builder..

Today anythings you want to stick to the walls suddenly become flame hazard or bad acoustic material, and this and that!!

So... today, what the musician can stick to the walls instead ?
I still remember and love the sound of my friend polystyrene room with eggs cartons and curtains.
can somebody explain? I'm the only one remembering that ?

[Bruce Swedien]

Yea... can someones explain to me why back in Europe, almost all of the band rehearsals spaces where made with Eggs cartons , curtains and polystyrene too!??? 100% coverage!
I never complained about the sound,! Nice warm sound, I never suffered ear fatigue...! Was just the only option out there for musicians !
there was not Internet at the time....

Now instead many musicians end up spending their time in forum trying to figure out why they don't like their rooms made with " acoustic foam or fiberglass panels, the only accepted acoustic treatment today unless you are a super man builder..

Today anythings you want to stick to the walls suddenly become flame hazard or bad acoustic material, and this and that!!

So... today, what the musician can stick to the walls instead ?
I still remember and love the sound of my friend polystyrene room with eggs cartons and curtains.
can somebody explain? I'm the only one remembering that ?

I LOVE the sound of Egg Cartons on the walls of the studio....

Bruce Swedien

[xSpace]

I LOVE the sound of Egg Cartons on the walls of the studio....

Bruce Swedien

I think this website is taking a HUGE step backwards in the presentation of this kind of information.


What next...mattresses?

[Jazzfan]

Bruce (if I may use the informal),

You wrote of starting with small ensemble rooms, moving to large auditoria, (I assume this included the famous Decca tree), through dead rooms, semi live (LEDE), and back to small project studios. Odd how the cycle works...

In your opinion, do room dynamics really matter if recording with close mics?

[chuck-lin]

I LOVE the sound of Egg Cartons on the walls of the studio....

Bruce Swedien

I think this website is taking a HUGE step backwards in the presentation of this kind of information.


What next...mattresses?

well thats what I,ll be using in my studio....

[timogiodeson]

Mr Swedien,
How do you approach an acoustic jazz quartet recording with grand piano, drums, upright bass and Sax in a small 13'x18'room' with bad acoustic?

[Ro]

I LOVE the sound of Egg Cartons on the walls of the studio....
Bruce Swedien

Yeah, I do too. It's great value for practical no $ !
(so, euh How many smiles does it take to create a good sounding room with egg carton...)

[gullfo]

its all about bulk. and now with flame retardant:

http://www.eggcartons.com/category-exec ... _Egg_Trays



http://www.eggcartons.com/product-exec/ ... _Egg_CX_30

(complete with warnings for use as acoustic treatments)

i wonder if those wooden shoe carving machines can be adapted to create egg cartons from wood so you can mix and match...

[timogiodeson]

its all about bulk. and now with flame retardant:

http://www.eggcartons.com/category-exec ... _Egg_Trays



http://www.eggcartons.com/product-exec/ ... _Egg_CX_30

(complete with warnings for use as acoustic treatments)

i wonder if those wooden shoe carving machines can be adapted to create egg cartons from wood so you can mix and match...

OK, but all of you agree that eggs curtains sounded good?
Especially if you cover 100% the walls? Polystyrene also is not considered an acoustic material but if you cover 100% of the wall it effect the acoustic some how.. ...
Anything you cover the wall with effect the acoustic a little ..,
I know it because back in Europe I gr owed up playing in places made like that!
Curtains too, bamboo fencing's etc etc...
This stuff has reduced absorption, doesn't really kill the room...
But if you cover the walls with acoustic foam or fiberglass the room sound bad instead...unless you cover just part of it and then you deal with 10000 reflections in your ears and fatigue.

So today... Watt ..f the Musicians can glue to their garage walls ?
Now everything suddenly is flame hazard..even polystyrene, sound board, plywood, etc... and I agree with that!
But
then after all the fire hazard problems we start with bass absorption limitations.. we now need 4" or more tick fiberglass spaced from the walls etc etc..

and here the question
what will absorb more bass?:

20% walls coverage, 4" tick dense fiberglass
(uniformly absorb 100% of the sound):
125 Hz 250 Hz 500 Hz 1 kHz 2 kHz 4 kHz
0.99 0.98 0.99 0.98 0.99 0.99
or
100% walls coverage -thin material with reduced absorption,
something like polystyrene or similar stupid stuff I guess..
(uniformly absorb only 20% of the sound)
125 Hz 250 Hz 500 Hz 1 kHz 2 kHz 4 kHz
0.22 0.24 0.23 0.21 0.22 0.24

??

[Bruce Swedien]

OK, but all of you agree that eggs curtains sounded good?
Especially if you cover 100% the walls? Polystyrene also is not considered an acoustic material but if you cover 100% of the wall it effect the acoustic some how.. ...
Anything you cover the wall with effect the acoustic a little ..,
I know it because back in Europe I gr owed up playing in places made like that!
Curtains too, bamboo fencing's etc etc...
This stuff has reduced absorption, doesn't really kill the room...
But if you cover the walls with acoustic foam or fiberglass the room sound bad instead...unless you cover just part of it and then you deal with 10000 reflections in your ears and fatigue.

So today... Watt ..f the Musicians can glue to their garage walls ?
Now everything suddenly is flame hazard..even polystyrene, sound board, plywood, etc... and I agree with that!
But
then after all the fire hazard problems we start with bass absorption limitations.. we now need 4" or more tick fiberglass spaced from the walls etc etc..

and here the question
what will absorb more bass?:

20% walls coverage, 4" tick dense fiberglass
(uniformly absorb 100% of the sound):
125 Hz 250 Hz 500 Hz 1 kHz 2 kHz 4 kHz
0.99 0.98 0.99 0.98 0.99 0.99
or
100% walls coverage -thin material with reduced absorption,
something like polystyrene or similar stupid stuff I guess..
(uniformly absorb only 20% of the sound)
125 Hz 250 Hz 500 Hz 1 kHz 2 kHz 4 kHz
0.22 0.24 0.23 0.21 0.22 0.24

?? [/quote]


timogiodeson

I would most certainly NOT want to go back to egg cartons. Egg cartons helped alot when I was starting up in Minneapolis. That time has come and gone!

My new studio with it's Acoustic Sciences" treatment is vastly superior! I love it!

Bruce Swedien

[Ro]

OK, but all of you agree that eggs curtains sounded good?

No, we don't. They just don't work. No absorption, no reflection. non, nada (well, a bit in the higher frq regions.. but forget it). It's a firehazard too. What a pitty. Forget about it, NOW

[mika]

OK, but all of you agree that eggs curtains sounded good?

No, we don't. They just don't work. No absorption, no reflection. non, nada (well, a bit in the higher frq regions.. but forget it). It's a firehazard too. What a pitty. Forget about it, NOW

read this:
http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF
cheers
mika

[gullfo]

sadly, we do not know what brand of egg crates were used...

i think though we have progressed beyond egg crates when it comes to broadband absorption... that said, i do like the QSF approach to direct field effects to create a diffuse controlled space...

not sure if the drum model is right - i guess it depends on the mic positions and room but i would think you still want some treatment in the room to temper it a bit so you are not getting too much coming back at you.

[Bruce Swedien]

OK, but all of you agree that eggs curtains sounded good?

No, we don't. They just don't work. No absorption, no reflection. non, nada (well, a bit in the higher frq regions.. but forget it). It's a firehazard too. What a pitty. Forget about it, NOW

read this:
http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF
cheers
mika

Mika.....

What are you saying? I don't understand....

Bruce Swedien

[Bruce Swedien]

I want to say that now I would NEVER think of going back to Egg Cartons. By today's acoustical standards they are pretty much dog-doo. BUT - they did help me in 1956 I'll tell you....

I'll never forget the first tiime I heard their effect on the sound...


Bruce