John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hey Glenn,

Thank you very much for your expertise - much appreciated!

So, I think that I will have to live with that then (as I'm playing with a limited space).

I will leave the CR wall inside out in order to have the slot resonators using the cavity between the studs, BUT I will move the cladding on the LR wall on the opposite side, with the plasterboard facing the inside of the room (as seen in the last pic of my previous post) .... if when finished I feel that that will make the room too "reflective" I could always build a panel absorber on that wall, couldn't I ?

Regarding the fact that you say that "the space between the walls should have very little or no compression on the insulation to avoid connecting the rooms and losing isolation" - would you suggest I use the "fluffy" insulation (the one that is often used in lofts) in the air gap between the two rooms, instead of the rockwool slabs?
(I also seem to remember - reading somewhere in the Matrix....err...in the Forum - that the fluffy insulation is even better to absorb low frequencies!?)

Cheers

Simone

yes, you could add absorption on the inside of the live room when you need.

yes, you could use the pink or normal wall insulation instead of the rockwool.

Adding to what Glenn said: the density of the insulation is important. For optimum performance with fiberglass insulation you should use stuff with density in the range 30 to 40 kg/m3. If you use mineral wool, the density should be around 40 to 50 kg/m3.


- Stuart -

Thanks a lot Glenn and Stuart !

At the moment I've ordered rockwool slabs with 45 Kg/m3.

Now - for the air gap between rooms, I just need to find the normal (fluffy) wall insulation with the density in the same range, as suggested by Stuart !

Grazie !!


Simo

You guys have "big box" building materials, they should have fluffy insulation, it's typical residential thermal wall stuff/

Hi Brien,

yes it's easy to find fluffy insulation here, being as you said commonly used in residential constructions (lofts in particular).... the only thing is that it is never specified on the bag/wrapping the actual density (Kg/m3).... well more research required my end I guess...

Cheers
Simo

Dear all,

I'm really worried now.... I've been enquiring about HVAC systems for my studio.... and the result is quite simply astonishing.

The first quote I received was 3250 uk pounds for the AC and 1750 pounds for the fresh air system !!

Then, I approached another company from which I just received their quote.... hold on tightly.... ready... 12,000 pounds for two split systems wall mounted unit and separate outside air and exhaust air systems using heat recovery (exclusive of VAT, builders work and electrical work) !!!!!!!!

How on earth is that possible ????!!!

I don't / won't believe that a system can be THAT expensive... a lot more than the actual building itself !

How have you guys managed to find cheeper but suitable systems? because you HAVE, HAVEN'T YOU?

As a matter of fact, before approaching these two particular companies I DID find split systems for around 300-500 pounds such as this one for instance:
http://www.britishaircon.com/Easy-Fit-A ... 1202S.html

The only thing is that, as I'm sure you all know, split AC do not have fresh air system - and I'm not confident at all to even try and modify it myself as I don't know the first thing about it and would much prefer to leave this part to a professional.

Please Heeeelp

Any thoughts? ideas? suggestions? or anything to give me hope?


Simo

If I had to guess, the biggest issue is that you got the HVAC guys involved at the end of the build and they should have been part of the design phase.

The costs are going to be a high percentage of the overall project but the placement or involvement of these guys is crucial to avoid the higher costs you are facing.

But, nevermind the first or even the second bid. You need to get them involved in the remainder of your project and you may find that a few more eyeballs on this job might bring the cost down, still might seem high, but it is a very specialized thing you are asking of the craft.

And you have to take everything into consideration, baffles, air in/out from the individual rooms, it just takes cash, but you have to get a design that is going to work in your rooms and not be money spent that haunts you for ever.
.

if you go with the split units and an air exchanger per room (like an AeroPac) the cost of the systems should be reasonable but the installation and so on may be the bigger cost. most places in the US, only licensed installers can do the final step of charging the system with coolant and connecting the electric, but most of the installation steps up to that point could be done by anyone with experience in doing the work. some installers may charge more if you purchase the equipment on your own since then they're missing out on the markup.

as Brien points out, getting more estimates and working closely with the installer(s) could bring the cost down.

Hi Brien and Glenn- Thanks for your response and suggestions. Much appreciated!

Actually though Glenn... I'm not even near the end of the build . . . as a matter of fact I haven't started yet (just got the material delivered) so I thought it would be a good idea to contact the HVAC guys at this stage so I could have the option of building around their requirements if needs be - as you also kindly pointed out.

I will try to get in touch with them (the company with the more realistic quote) again and see if they can offer me another solution and/or what else can be done from my and their side to bring the cost down. AND getting more estimates around as suggested by Glenn.

I totally agree with you Brien when you said that this IS a crucial part of the design, as it will make all the difference between a room that is comfortable to be in and work in, even for long hours (as often happens!) as opposed to a smelly trap that you just can't wait to get the hell out of !
Not least, it won't be easy AT ALL to upgrade or replace the HVAC wrongly installed or not suitable for the rooms at a later stage without wrecking the whole studio. ... SO ---> point taken, Thanks a lot !!
I'll see if I'll manage to get a compromise with these guys

All the Best

Ciao
Simo

I have some links, they mostly point right back to Mr. Sayers forum:

http://buildthisroom.com/hvac-baffles-and-plenums/
Specific details can be located in the link marked "Mini-Prod Studio - Construction Phase"

But these are at least the most current and informative that I have been able to get my hands on.

hey, just noticed this topic. great build!

Thanks so much for the links Brien ! that's VERY useful !
(I actually already come across Carsten's Mini-Prod Studio - Construction Phase.... GREAT build and very informative indeed!). - GRAZIE

Thanks a lot Ro for you encouragement !

Speak soon
Simo

Hello

already back

Hope you are well !

I've got two questions for you ... just for a change

For my ceiling rafters I ordered 200mm x 45mm, and the ceiling central beam is 200mm x 75mm. Q) Won't the final resulting ceiling structure be too heavy, considering also that above that structure there'll be two layers of 15mm plasterboard (1 x fireline@ 37Kg and 1 x soundblock @ 41 Kg)?
Or will that be fine?

(I just ordered them but they haven't been delivered yet, so I can change / swap them for a more suitable timber section if necessary - What's your thoughts?)


Q) in addition to the previous question, do you think that the ceiling structure connected to the studs (and not sitting on top of them) would safely support the overall weight of the ceiling ..."for life"? I've seen this approach on John's "Small Studio" design and it was actually built on "Silva Productions" (another of John's designs!) so I guess that it WILL be fine, but just wanted to check once again before building it that way for peace of mind!
...As I already mentioned I have never built anything in this scale or even close to this scale, so I'm really concerned about the stability and safety of the building (as well as its acoustics obviously)... so sorry if this subject as already been covered somewhere else here.


Or it would be better (or even safer) to encase part of the rafters into the studs like so? Many thanks again

Ciao
Simo

What you are doing is nothing like what Mr Sayers was doing...you have to pay strict attention to these things or mistakes are going to happen.


Here you can see the false ceiling frame at an angle as well as
the 4" insulation. A layer of thin plastic and finally the cloth...."