Basement Two Room Studio

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:31 am

Looks to me like the horizontal brace was used for lack of space where the duct is; these are mainly to avoid squeaks in the floor, and the cavities to each side both have x braces - I don't see a problem with putting two braces spaced apart instead of one in the middle.

I'd be more concerned that your duct is between the two masses of your sound barrier, and as such will transmit some sound up into the living space... Steve

PhiloBeddoe · Post by **PhiloBeddoe** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:08 am

Yeah, the ductwork in general is my biggest head-scratcher. There is really no place I can put the studio without having some overhead ductwork. I figured I'd wrap insulate the existing ducts, and put fill their joist cavities with two layers of 5/8" drywall the same as everywhere else.

Do you think it would be worthwhile to replace the existing overhead round ducts with insulated flex or lined ducts? That's probably all I can do. I have yet to inquire with an HVAC person about installing lined ducts so I have no clue what that would cost. I could probably manage the insulated flex myself.

Also, does my plan for installing a floated ceiling look ok? According to the span tables I have (one from Steve), a 2x6 is within the limits by at least 2 ft. Is it worth it to do this over RC? I really like the idea of not using RC so I can mount guitars to the wall and don't need to worry about RC failure.

BTW, installing the two layers of 5/8" drywall between ceiling joists is nontrivial. I'd recommend to anyone doing it to work with sections no longer than 4 ft. because of its weight. I've been laminating two ~4 ft. pieces together and holding them up while a helper screws in the 1x2 supports. Since the joists aren't perfectly straight, the width between them can vary so you have to be careful cutting the drywall. I've had to do a lot of trimming off the original pieces I had cut because they were too wide. I thought about using some type of jack or t-brace for supporting them, but it doesn't seem too practical now because of all the adjusting required to get it in position. My shoulders hurt!

PhiloBeddoe · Post by **PhiloBeddoe** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:30 pm

Here's a picture of the two layers of 5/8" drywall supported by 1"x2" cleats. I'm very nearly done with this process, just some more caulking to do.

PhiloBeddoe · Post by **PhiloBeddoe** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:49 pm

I'm almost ready to give the go ahead to a carpenter to start framing. He gave me a decent price and it will take forever for me to do it myself. I still have a few questions regarding framing.

Does anyone have an opinion of spanning a new ceiling in the live room with new 2x6 joists as shown in the previous postings? This is better than just mounting RC to the existing joists right?

Is there a specific type of wood that needs to be used for the new joists, e.g. laminated beam, douglas fir?

Will I need to use something like rafter ties or angle brackets for mounting the new joists to the top plates? My carpenter may know the answer to this, but I want to be prepared just in case.

My plan is similar to Ted White's home theater:
http://www.tedwhite.homestead.com/files ... ose_up.jpg
http://www.tedwhite.homestead.com/files ... ling_1.htm

And this one:
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.p ... 67&start=0

Because of the ductwork and the longer spans, I won't be able to do this in the control room. I plan to use RSIC and hat channel on the existing joists in the control room.

Thanks

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:18 am

Your live room span is the 11 foot one shown in the cad drawing? If so, then 24" centers using 2x6's won't quite give you 10# dead load, which is minimum for hanging two layers of 5/8 rock with insulation - you'll need to go with 16" centers which will span up to 13 feet, using Doug fir #2 and better, 2x6. If you have the headroom, you could go to 2x8's; all else being equal, they would span 13'6" with 24" centers.

Yes, this would be better from an isolation standpoint; however, if you're limited in headroom then using RSIC clips and hat channel would likely give the best results with minimum headroom loss.

Room to room isolation within the studio would be better if using separate ceilings, with wall extending up above the ceiling and sealed... Steve

PhiloBeddoe · Post by **PhiloBeddoe** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:47 pm

Room to room isolation within the studio would be better if using separate ceilings, with wall extending up above the ceiling and sealed

Steve,
Thanks for your reply. I guess I'm not sure what you mean by this, especially the wall extending above the ceiling. My plan was to support the new ceiling joists on top of the wall. Are you referring to the drywall? Sorry about my confusion.

Yes, the span is the 11 ft. shown in the cad drawing and I did plan on having the new joists on 16" centers so hopefully the ceiling won't collapse!

As it turns out, the headroom I will have using 2x6 joists + 2 layers of 5/8" drywall is very nearly the same as using RSIC+hat channel+2 layers 5/8" drywall. If I needed to use 2x8s I'd lose too much headroom. This is the reason I was asking if the isolation would be better using a false ceiling.

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:48 pm

Yeah, I was referring to the ceilng drywall - this sketch is for another member, so has one frame load bearing; but the drywall hangs down below the wall frame as shown, on RC - that way, you don't get flanking through a continuous drywall leaf between rooms... Steve

PhiloBeddoe · Post by **PhiloBeddoe** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:54 am

OK thanks again, I understand your point now. I will not have a continuous ceiling leaf since the live room will have the floated ceiling on new joists and the control room will have resilient mounted drywall on existing joists.

Any thoughts on using something like rafter ties or angle brackets for fastening the new joists to the top plates?

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:38 pm

Yeah, something like these

http://www.strongtie.com/products/conne ... -THAC.html

more comments on the sketch... Steve

PhiloBeddoe · Post by **PhiloBeddoe** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:02 am

Steve,

Thanks again for your reply. Man, this forum sure keeps you hoppin'.

If I am interpreting your suggestion correctly, I think that it won't quite work for me. The problem is that I won't have a perimeter joist. The new joists that span the room will be run in between the existing joists as in:

http://www.tedwhite.homestead.com/files ... ose_up.jpg

and

http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.p ... 67&start=0

The idea is to take advantage of the vertical space available in between the existing joists.

The new joists will only rest on top of the new top plates. The top plates are the only stucture available to fasten the new joists to.

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks again

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:47 am

"Man, this forum sure keeps you hoppin'" - ever watch a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs??!?

OK, I think we're on the same page now - you will be "interleaving" your new joists; got it...

Now, if I can just figger out what to DO with it... Steve

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:20 am

Checked out the pic and threads, and Rod was also concerned with one of my reservations - the lack of bridging for the upper floor framing.

How much of a gap were you intending between the tops of the NEW ceiling joists and the bottom of your (upper) sub floor? Because you're gonna want to figure out a bridging scheme before you get much further, unless you're into "death metal", or in this case, "death joists"... Steve

PhiloBeddoe · Post by **PhiloBeddoe** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:21 am

Steve,

I've learned a ton from Rod's posts here and on other forums.

I agree that not having bridging is a very bad idea. I've been known to bust out a Slayer riff on occasion, but I really suck when a 2 story house falls on me.

Anyway, I took out the bridging shown in the previous pics and replaced it with model #MB16 from USP connectors. They are adjustable length which I figured I'd need since I added the new drywall and cleats. They seem at least as strong and probably more rigid than the old bridging.

My plan is to run the new joists just under the new bridging. This will give me roughly the same finished ceiling height as using RSIC clips + hat channel.

Here's a picture:

PhiloBeddoe · Post by **PhiloBeddoe** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:39 pm

If it's ok I'd like to get back to the discussion about the half walls.

I am mainly concerned about isolation from the live room and the upstairs in the area that includes the half walls. I'm not that concerned about neighbors. I plan to leave the existing window as is, perhaps hanging an absorber over it. Considering I'll be leaving the window, is it pointless to frame new walls parallel to the half walls? If I build the parallel walls there will be a window box in the new south wall in order to maintain access to the existing window. I'm willing to do it, but maybe there's no point because there will be so much leakage out the window.

The other option is to just resiliently mount drywall on the half walls and not framing new walls.

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks a million again.

Arthur Rice · Post by **Arthur Rice** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:40 pm

PhiloBeddoe,

Sorry, I just caught your post about the HVAC question. Still working on my place but I'm real close, I did do a listen to check out my HVAC duck work, they worked out really great. I have good air flow with no wooosh and very minimal sound leakage. I have to really crank it to hear anything through my main house return, and I really think it's something that I missed until it was too late. My main return enclosure is right above my control room and I think the insulation rap-around is touching my ceiling

don't know how I missed it but I'm pretty sure I did. Course if I stress over what little bit of leakage I have at the level of volume I was listening I'd be deaf long before it ever mattered.

It looks like you don't have a lot of room between your joist, but the nice thing about the load boxes is the shape is not that critical. All you want is something to slow the air down and catch the sound coming back. With the loss in air movement you may want to put an extra supply line in, the air doesn't move as fast so the room doesn't fill up as fast either. If you get a HVAC tech to do your work good luck, most of them don't know jack about what you're doing and they charge by the second. Though it's not a bad idea to get someone to figure how much air suppy you need for your rooms.

I hope this helps and good luck on your build, remember check everthing three times so you don't miss anything, it's easy to do.

Arthur