need general help.

aespin · Post by **aespin** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:26 pm

WALL FRAME?

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:11 pm

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... c&start=30

Check the last picture on this page - basically you build two walls, only put wallboard on the inside of the inner frame and the outside of the outer frame, and use two solid core, flat exterior doors - one in each frame. That way you have walls that are mass-air-mass, and you have doors that are also mass-air-mass. This gives best isolation. Exterior grade pre-hung doors generally have better seals so they will work better.

Where the gap is between your two floors, you can extend the flooring to within 1/4" of the other floor, under the door sills. You don't want the two floors to touch, but 1/4" will keep them separate and still keep you from tripping on the crack.

Are you planning on floated concrete floors, or floated heavy wood floors? Steve

aespin · Post by **aespin** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:23 am

wood floors steve,

3/4" plywood + 3/4" MDF + lamineted floor.

thanks again.

can i use only 1 door or 2 is better?

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:42 am

Two, separated by an air gap of about 12 inches (or an actual air lock or vestibule) is MUCH better... Steve

aespin · Post by **aespin** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:01 am

thanks steve.

Thurdsday excavation gonna start i will posting pics.

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:44 am

Have you decided what way you're gonna build your outer walls? If you use the surface-bonded block, it needs SPECIAL mortar with fiberglass strands in order to be strong, and ANY hollow block needs to be filled either with sand or concrete for best sound isolation when used with an inner wall, otherwise you get the "three-leaf" problem which causes WORSE sound isolation at low frequencies... Steve

aespin · Post by **aespin** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:53 am

yeah, 8" hollow block, filled with concrete. rendered both sides.

well i think gonna be strong, my dad is architect so hes taking care of the construction.

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:36 am

Cool; just don't let him convince you to do anything acoustical unless he's ALSO a degreed acoustician, without at least asking here first - very little of this stuff is "logical" without lots of analysis.

Good that he's gonna keep you safe though; that's sorta important...

Oh, and any doors you install - do NOT let them install like the normal way - usually, the door frame is installed in the rough opening with SHIMS to get it level/plumb, and then molding covers these HOLES. At the very least, you should stuff all those gaps with rockwool - better to caulk them (use either butyl based (expensive) caulk or look in the Building Materials forum here for acoustic caulk sources.

Be sure and use foam backer rod for all caulking, so you don't end up with failed seals due to 3-point caulk beads... Steve

aespin · Post by **aespin** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:50 pm

Yeah, my dad gonna trust me.

i will posting pics and hope u guys help me with drawings, since i understand better when pics or drawings describe your words

.

but i think i have the basics for the concrete block walls, and concrete floor and roof (ceiling).

i have some questions about how to attach the mineral wool, but i will ask when time comes.

grass were removed today, gonna start the demolition of existing perimetral walls (cuz 2 more rooms gonna be over my studio, need to get the construction ready to support 3 rooms).

i just need confirmation for mineral wool, 2" 48kg density in all the room?.

thanks Steve.

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:17 pm

Right, that'll be fine; you will want to use TWO thicknesses in your corner traps (more stiff walls keep in more bass, so more trapping will be needed) - so keep that in mind when you're figuring out how much mineral wool to get... Steve

aespin · Post by **aespin** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:21 am

4 or 8 corners?

aespin · Post by **aespin** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:42 am

hello steve i find usg distibution in mexico.

thanks again

aespin · Post by **aespin** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:44 pm

Big question, How to install the Rockwool?

atacched to inner wall? glued? doesnt matters?, i search in forum but can get a good pic about how to place the rockwool, mineral wool.

mineral wool on floated floors is rested over the concrete only?

when u guys said steel studs u mean the same studs that is sell for gypsum boards at home deppot?

thanks

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:35 pm

Big question, How to install the Rockwool?

atacched to inner wall? glued? doesnt matters?, i search in forum but can get a good pic about how to place the rockwool, mineral wool.

If you're using steel studs, rockwool batts will slide between the channel and stay put. If wood, you need to trim 1.5" off each batt so it will fit between studs on 24" centers - studs are 1.5" thick so cavity will only be 22.5" wide. IF you cut the rockwool (wood studs only) to 23", it will bow slightly and lock in place between studs, and ALSO it will press slightly against the gypsum boards - this is GOOD, it helps damp any vibrations the gypsum will get when stopping sound.

mineral wool on floated floors is rested over the concrete only?

Right. If your mineral wool sticks up maybe 5-6mm (1/4" or less) above your floor joists when all rubber, etc, is in place, then the floor will compress it slightly and it will keep the floor from ringing. This is what you want.

If your mineral wool does NOT do that, you may need to add some strips of regular fiberglass insulation between joists, so THAT compresses slightly and presses against the underside of the floor - you do NOT want that floor to RING, this is important.

when u guys said steel studs u mean the same studs that is sell for gypsum boards at home deppot?

Yes. If you use steel instead of wood, there are different "weights" - 25 gauge is NON-load-bearing, which is fine for that type wall (ask your Dad) - the heavier, 20 gauge studs are for LOAD-bearing walls. If you will use steel studs in an INNER wall that has gypsum ONLY ON ONE SIDE, you should use the heavier, Load-bearing (structural) ones so they don't tend to TWIST later.

Home Depot might have the heavier studs, or they might only have the lighter ones.

Another caution about steel studs - if your area has high humidity and you plan to use steel framing, plan on running a de-humidifier in the rooms when you're not working in there - it only takes 1/10 as much moisture for a steel-framed structure to have moisture-related problems as it does with WOOD structures. There's a paper about this in the Reference Section, look for Building Sciences links.

HTH... Steve

aespin · Post by **aespin** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:37 am

thanks again steve, yeah he told me we need structure metal stds, but as u said, i will ask and confirm here before i buy anything or do anything.

i'm having lil problems with acoustical sealant, noones carries here, anyone have the specs for the product, so i can find another that meet specs but just not called acoustical sealant.

talking about doors, i was thinking if i use "refrigerator door seals" i think can works great only need to have an aluminor or steel frame so door can make contact and seal, any idea?

something like:

http://www.american-appliance.com/servi ... cement.htm

i ask for price for a 90x200 cm door and they said 13 dollars aprox, so looks like a cheap and nice solution