UAN - new Control Room build

[RJHollins]

OK ... question [and this might be stupid on my part], but, do we really need these furring strips in there ??
I'm just wondering what purpose[s] they fulfill AND I'm concerned about all the weight I've added to the structure.

If the furring strips provide isolation, then I would need to cover both sides of the bins end-to-end. However, if these strips are only for safety and support of the 2 layers of drywall, then could/should I just install, say maybe, three 1 foot pieces [1 in the middle, and 1 on each end] ?? That would be 6 blocks in each bin.

I know its' not adding THAT much more weight, but I would like to minimize extra weight if possible.

Thanks for your insight and guidance !

Sincerely.

[gullfo]

yea, the furring strips ensure everything stays in place. the caulking and bead only seal it. you could space them but a continuous strip will ensure the caulking doesn't fall out layer due to aging or vibrations.

[RJHollins]

Progress report.

OK ... well between the holidaze, I've been able to get some work on the room.

The pile of furring strips were pre-drilled, and then screwed into place on both sides
of the joist. I then threw another caulking party ... once again, nobody showed up


Anyway ... another case [I've almost lost count] of caulking went in on all seams of the
furring strips. The smell of silicon still lingers, as I have a small fan blowing out the room
through window and opened door to the garage.

The 'body' has taken a slight beating ... but my hands and arms now have the strength of
a small farm animal [of course, any of the finer, subtle jazz drumming technique has
been temporarily compromised due to strained wrist and fingers ] I do have high hopes
that I could set-up a small kit in the back of the room and be able to practice without
bothering anyone ... ahhh, that would be truly wonderful

If we can ... I'd like to proceed to the next step ... getting insulation up there !

?? But have a question, please: ??

My bins are roughly 6-3/4" deep [from drywall to bottom of joist]. I would like to use
the non-itch version of faceless fluffy insulation. Went to Home Depot, and they were
out-of-stock, and my lumber company doesn't sell that type. Once I DO find it, I'm
wondering what thickness I should buy. It seems the common choices are [R-19] 6-1/4",
or [R-30] 9-1/2". Recall ... I will be having new ceiling rafters running down the middle
of the existing joist above.

Oh ... and another important question. I had removed the cross-bracing in order to do
this 'beef up'. Do I need to address this Blocking ??? The new rafters are looking
to be 2x6 's, mounted ~ 1/2" below the bottom of the joist [trying to keep the ceiling as
high as possible]. I MUST say that the upstairs floor [with the new beefing below] has
NEVER felt more solid. Most all of the squeaky floor is gone. It just feels very solid.
In fact, it appears that the hardwood floor seams 'may' have spaced a tad.
Like the overall floor is more level, and doesn't have that spongey feel. The 'other side' of the upstairs floor feels the same, with the slight spongy and squeaks.
I will NOT be doing the other side [any time soon ]

Anyway ... any and all observation/guidance is very welcomed on this !

Thanks you once again .... and HAPPY NEW YEAR

[gullfo]

you should put bracing on the joists if they are larger than 2x8. i'd say if you have joists nesting into that space between the existing ones, go with the R19. that should lightly the new ceiling drywall to ensure it's damped.

on your next brochure, just advertise you need help applying "cream" onto a number of studio groupies who like to be horizontal and be rubbed by strong manly men... it's only a slight mis-characterization...

[RJHollins]

Hi Glenn,

I love the brochure idea !! Gee, I was even getting fired up for another round


Anywho ... Glenn, sorry to pester on these small details, but I don't want to mess up with
your design.

The ' joist blocking'.

The existing floor joist: They are 1-5/8" x 9" x 13'-6". [Douglas Fir]
Obviously after adding the 1" Formular, and the 2 layers of 5/8 drywall,
the bin depth is now 6 3/4".

With my brother being both a contractor AND a registered house inspector, I'm sure he'll have
a ruling ... but my specific question [besides structural safety & integrity] would also include
any 'acoustical' considerations? [I still have alot to learn regarding this Science, and want
to be sure that in my ignorance, that I didn't ask the question of one who knows].

2nd question ... would like to do a Monday ordering if possible

Insulation depth. Online I see that Johns Manville has an R-22 which is 7 1/2" thick
[no idea if this is available locally]. Maybe the installers my brother uses have access ?
if not, I want to be sure I'm following correctly so ... let me ask:

Is there to be [or not to be] any open air gap between the floor above and the top of the
new CR ceiling ?? R-19 being 6 1/4" thick, and litely touching the top of CR ceiling, may have
a depth of 7 1/2". This may leave an 1+inch air gap under the beef-up drywall. Is this a
similar concept that we'd have with the spacing of the 2x4 double walls ???
[Mass, insulation, air gap, insulation, mass]. Except we'd have mass, gap, insulation, mass.

I know I'm NOT asking this very clearly ... think I'm still buzzing from the silicon [ok, and the
NEW brochure may be a factor

anyway ... minutes away from the New Year. May it be wonderful.

Sincerely ...... Thank-you

[gullfo]

the insulation for sure wants to be in contact with the new isolation ceiling drywall to ensure it is damped. the challenge (in conjunction with blocking) is to ensure that the insulation is not compressed too much and avoid any possible coupling effect. so simply threading the insulation through the joists (new and old) will require a delicate touch and if you have to have an air gap, i'd leave that gap at the top near the existing (beefed up) floor.

defer to your brothers' knowledge on safety and code to guide the bracing decision and when in doubt pick safety over convenience.

[RJHollins]

Progress update:

Been taking care of a few odds & ends, along with much shopping for supplies and
research.

I've not found the exact type of insulation for the bins as yet. I'm thinking I may wait
to install it until AFTER we get the wall construction up. It would be sonnically better if we
had it in, but it might be tough building underneath

Speaking of sound ... the added drywall has livened up the room a bit [as expected]. One thing I notice is the change in sound levels coming from above. It seems every few days the transfer lessens. I read that GreenGlue takes about 4 weeks curing time. Of course, the untreated side of the room is noticeably louder. Just an observation.

OK ... I had the plumbers back in last night to take care of a few issues. I wasn't happy with the emergency pump install, so that was now fix. Also, I had a hot water heating pipe that I had them change ... but I screwed up. Now that I have the isolation drywall in, along with a clearer layout of the walls, the pipe would have needed to cut through the new construction.
[me no like that] ... so, they moved it to the far back of the rafter, and insulated it. This should now be out of the way. And, of course, my electrician will be coming back to move a couple lines that just need to be moved ! Shoulda done it from the get go ... livin' and learnin' .
Next ... the sump pump area just looked atrocious. I went in with a 'steamer' and cleaned that area where drain pipe had covered since day one. I then re-surfaced the floor area with new concrete. Figured I better do while I can still get to it. Same goes for the upcoming paint for the foundation walls. Just want to clean it up before it all gets hidden.

I also went in and did some sealing around the foundation and the sill plate while I still could.

The Brother had stopped in to inspect ... he's tough, but seemed impressed with the 'beef-up' and smiled when he saw full furring with caulk coverage in there. He, along with our structural engineer, still maintain that blocking between the joist will NOT be needed. So, the half dozen 2x4's I bought will have a different gig. HOWEVER ... I DO have about 15 8' 1x3's
out in the garage that, currently, Robin Hood & his Band of Merry are divvying up for bows. If the lumber yard won't take em back, they can be used for fire wood.

I know I still have several issue to resolve [things like HVAC, the Door, lighting, etc] but, I'm
really wanting to get some lumber delivered so I can start laying out the floor plan to REALLY see what I have. Am I at that point yet ???

We got pics

[gullfo]

cool all around. maybe some of the 1x3 can end up in various trimming bits where you need something to tack cloth onto etc...

[RJHollins]

Hi Glenn,
Thanks

I really need some advice regarding the integration of the new wall build within the existing
structure.

I'll get some diagrams together, but what I'm first looking at is the outer 2x4 walls of your design [front & side], and the best strategy to go. The side wall will be going perpendicular to the joist above, while the front wall runs parallel.

Two choices . We can build with a top plate up to the bottom of the joist, OR
we could run up and attach to the side of a joist. ????

My layman's' guess would be with 'double top plates' under the joist. [Which could also provide some
additional support of the floor above. [of course, we're talking ONLY of the 2 outer walls].

Also ... I have a box of 'Hammer-Set' Heavy duty nail drive anchors 1/4" x 2" that I'm
considering for locking the floor plate [treated 2x4] to the concrete floor, AND for connecting
the 2 places that the 2x4 outer wall will connect to the concrete foundation.

I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this please !!

Thanks

[gullfo]

the double top plate works. the anchors should work on the outside wall. i'd opt for decoupled anchors on the inside walls.

[RJHollins]

the double top plate works. the anchors should work on the outside wall. i'd opt for decoupled anchors on the inside walls.

Double top plate it is !!

I'd like to draw up the possible idea for placement of the outer side wall that'll be where the
'main load bearing' beam is. I'll get that together.

For the 'decoupled anchors', I'll search the forum again for specifics. I know that I read about
techniques others have used. i.e.: rubber tubing sleeves inside the 2x4 drilled hole, and
rubber washers.

Not sure if the anchors I bought are acceptable. Basically, they look like 'expansion' nails.
With a ~ 1" hole into the concrete floor & a 1/4" hole thru the 2x4, the 'nail' is pounded in,
and the bottom of it flanges out [expands] to lock it in [thus called a 'Hammer Set'].
I suppose I could use some rubber tubing, and add a rubber washer beneath the nails' built-in
metal washer. Make sense ??? Or do you have a different way [better] ??

BTW ... meeting with my lumber guy tomorrow to check and order framing lumber

[RJHollins]

OK ... I've drawn out the idea for the 2x4 outer wall with drywall and have
included the SketchUP file.

The concept is:

to connect to the bottom of the joist, FLUSH to the MLB beam for the
outer side wall. The 5/8 drywall would butt up under the MLB beam.

The front wall would connect the same way, but the drywall would cover the joist face.

Both walls filled with faced, 3 1/2" insulation [fluffy toward the inner wall].

Is there a better way ???

Another question ... contractor wants to know if frame should be nailed or screwed ... ???
possibly a combination of nailing the frame together, but screwing it in to the joist ???
What should I do ??

Sorry for all the questions [still so much to learn/understand] and I'd very much want to
avoid doing stupid

Once again, Glenn ... thank you so much for for guidance and wisdom !

Sincerely.

[gullfo]

You could go the route of using the rubber tubes and rubber washers to create the decoupled anchors.
On the walls, (I'm mobile at the moment) looks like your thinking of lining up the outer wall with the joist and toe-nailing (toe-screwing ) the frame to the joist? Maybe just use metal straps for that instead? Then yes you could run the drywall all the way up.

[RJHollins]

Hi Glenn !

It should be clearer in the actual SU file, but yes, I'm considering the side wall flush up
to that main load beam, and have the drywall come up to the bottom of that main beam.

The front wall [running parallel ] with the joist, was thinking of running THAT too up to
the bottom of the joist [for added floor support], but having the front surface lined up
with the face of the joist. Then drywall could run nearly up to the floor plate above. OR the
front wall could be flush to the 'inside' of the joist, then the drywall up to the joist bottom.

Just trying to make sure that things like flanking, etc, are minimized along with with the best
building concept.

Thanks again for your insight
[hmmm ... this 'toe-screwing' concept ... may require additional research

[RJHollins]

Premium grade lumber order went in today!
Monday afternoon delivery