John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

The rigidity and the support for the ceiling structure is the primary effect. The resonance consider is far secondary and with the mass on the walls is likely to not be a major consideration where a single layer of drywall would have some variation (however small). Since you're using faced insulation the sagging is also not likely an issue. So use the blocking in consideration of wall strength.

RJHollins wrote:Here's a quick question ...

With the 2x4 framed walls in place ... 24"oc ... I've been all through
Rods' 2nd edition book ... I see NO mention of installing 'block' between
the 2x4 wall studs [typically seen in 16oc residential frames]. My walls are
only 7 foot tall.

So the question be ... do we install blocking, or leave stud cavities full height.

Also ... what about the door 'area'.

Basic question, I know, but I've seen some [here] putting them in, while others
don't seem to have.

Any wooden wall assembly taller than 8 feet has to have vertical blocking...in the US. Remember this is a global forum and in other countries it is "best practice" to install vertical blocking since they have been known to use heavier materials from back when...so reducing the walls/assemblies ability to bow and collapse is part of the build process.

"Now comes the first install of attic insulation. If the word 'dramatic' could apply ."

You knocked out the high frequencies, the area that the human voice lies in, so it does seem dramatic...

Still looks good, hope to be here when you get to the end

To Glenn & Brien,

Thank-you for helping me better understand the particulars of these special
design & construction criteria. It seems all too easy to mess this up due to naivety or
assumption.

Tuesday we get back to the build. Top plate gets installed, and then ceiling joists get
placed. Blocking between the wall studs is now on the schedule. and more

There are more issues yet to resolve, and am thankful to the guidance I've received !

Sincerely

Progress report ....

ok ... we got in a couple hours in the past two days to do some building !

First day was a short one, so we only had time to 'final' attach all the wall segments
of the inner room together, checking square & plumb as we went along. We measured up
the pieces needed for the very top plate. Bro had to leave
I got all the top plate pieces cut & placed around the room for todays build. I also started
prepping the blocks for the wall studs ... still a few more to rip. I also added a few more
anchors into the floor plate. Had a nice system going with 2 drills, shop vac, and a hammer.
The went shopping for more supplies.

Today ... installing the top plates. I ended up buying, yet again, another tool
We called it the 'Hairy Palm Nailer'. Bro brought over his compressor, and soon we had this
thing attached. On a test piece of lumber, Bro did a dry run ... grins broke across our
faces as this little bad boy rapidly pounded in a 3" nail. Very Nice !!
With the 'test' out of the way ... we go straight to the top plate ... sneaking his hand
inside the rafter, he proceeds to drive in the top nails ... again, very nice THEN, he
litely loads a nail into this gun ... and it promptly BLOWS across the room. I'm staring at
him, he at me ... I immediately think he drove a nail into his hand or something
He said no, he's fine ... I'm like ... alright, lets SLOW DOWN ... get a handle on things.
We NOW refer to it as the 'SCARY Palm Nailer' !
The only flaw in the design is that the nailer doesn't seem to have a magnetic head ... gotta
have a word with 'Stanley'

Anyway ... with due respect for the tools, we continue nailing in the top plate. Other than
the one incident ... this tool is fantastic. We will call upon it soon.

We dragged in 20 of the 14' 2x6's, got them measured and cut for the ceiling joist. As we
discussed earlier, the decision was to go with 2 2x6/ joist. We 'snake-lined' some Liquid Nails,
and the 'W' nailed 2 boards together. We used 3 clamps to align the 'main' edge so that we
had a flush match. These clamps worked out great. Once nailed, we then set the joist on the
top plate.
I had already put a first layer of attic insulation in the bins, and we wanted to do a test fit.
Well, things were a little tight up there. We had 2 choices ... pull all the insulation out, install
the new joist, then re-insulate OR, we flatten the joist and slid it to one side, which put the
other edge right in the middle of the bin. I grabbed this special serrated knife and basically
split the insulation down the middle. We pry-ed it open, and then proceeded to roll the joist
into the split into an upright position. I'm then able to dress the insulation around the joist.
Not really that much fun, but it does work, and seems like the way we'll go.

For grins, I HAD to do a test 'pull' on this first joist. Carefully I worked my hands up to the
top of it and carefully executed a chin up. I put ALL my 192 lbs into it .... not even the
slightest deflection according to Bro watching on. To me, it was solid. [of course,
I'll be starting re-hab after that display]
We are sure that a
single 2x6 would have been ok ... but I am glad I went with the advice to double up. Not
only for the shear strength ... but also when it comes time to screwing in drywall. Besides
the surface area these guys will have [S.Wonder/R.Charles drywallers could do this],
but also for the fact that I've seen how lumber can split from nails OR screws.
OK ... so the Liquid Nails was probably overkill on my part but for the cost of a single
tube ... I felt I could splurge
We then went on to assemble and temp place the rest of the 10 joist.

Tomorrow we get together to get the short joist for the back of the room assembled, and
then attach all of them.

I do have a couple pix, and will post them soon. It sure feels good to get something done!

Sincerely

Another update !! with pix

OK ... as promised ... a few scenes from activities here.

On the shopping spree, was checking out different joist ties for the new dual-beam. And a peek at the very handy 'Palm Nailer' Some shots of the top plate going in ... we attacked this from ANY available angle ! After the dual 2x6 were Liquid Nail & nailed together ... testing the fit & install. The infamous "Hairy Palm' nailer in action ... TODAY ...

We stood up and nailed in all the long ceiling joist ... 16"oc ... and did an initial
spread of the insulation up there. I have to go in and fine tune this first layer, and then
cut new pieces to go along the sides of the joist with enough length to comfortably contact
new back of the ceiling drywall ... should be interesting NOW for the 'ISSUE AT HAND'.

I guess NO build would be really fun without a real challenge. Oh sure, NOW you tell me
I shoulda planned this better All my excuses would be lame ... AND, I still need to
figure out how to solve this

SO .... we are back in the sump pit area [appropriately named]. What we have here is the 'separation' of the outer wall from the main building, as we had
to do the 'kick-in' around the dreaded drain pipe.

From INSIDE the kick-in, you see the pipe in the wall .... Up above you can see the outer wall with a plate under the floor joist above. NOW ... how are we gonna air-tite build a piece to close off those spaces above the
bins ... AND, the open bin at the far back.

Oh .... I have an idea ... which seems like it will be a real joy to perform

But should ANYONE have a truly wonderful suggestion on how to tackle this area ... I
welcome them with open arms

ok ... off to the Depot for even more supplies ... and a rehersal
Back tonite.

What is this:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/downl ... p?id=37402


It looks though you guys have made effort to decouple and then had it all get tied back together with either, what looks to , a beam , top plate...something.

You guys short circuit this build, or does it just look like that in several of your pictures?

Hi Brien,

I looked at the photo you link ....

It's tough to tell from the photo ... but what we're seeing is a combination of the
original floor joist above, AND, interlaced are the NEW ceiling joist.

The New ceiling joist ONLY have contact to the INNER wall frame ... resting on TOP
of this new top plate. There is absolutely NO contact of the inner walls NOR ceiling joist
to any of the pre-existing structure. The ONLY thing in 'common' is the concrete floor.

It is VERY hard to tell from the photo, but the NEW joist are actually 1" BELOW the floor
joist that they run between.

Is THAT what you were seeing?!?!?!? Please let me know if you see something that
troubles you

I VERY much appreciate
Sincerely !


OHHHHHH ... I just look again at the photo you linked ... NOW I think I see what you notice!!

The one ceiling rafter [dark color] actually looks like one of the original floor joist !!!! But
it is NOT ... it is one of the dual joist ...

WOW ... the more I looked, I had to even check physically
here's another close up pix showing the dual joist between the upper floor joist, from
a different angle & lighting. The lighting is still crazy, but on the far left are the dual ceiling joist, to the right is a
dark floor joist, then another dual [the one in ???], followed by another [hard to see floor
joist, etc]. I do need to get some better lighting down here!

Man ... I HOPE that's what you saw ... please let me know !!

Thank-you

Nah, it is the top plate that I am seeing, who ever too that pix that I linked in was standing back inbetween the studs of another wall and I see a top plate that seems to be just hanging around.


Still...why did ya'll double the joist's? If a single joist will not support what you have in mind, doubling it only adds more weight and rigidity to the structure?

Hi Brien,

Is what you're seeing at the top front of the pix ???

If so, that pic was taken through the area [side] where the door will be going in.
As yet we don't have the wall studs in there yet.

The beam going across the top front of the pix is actually the main load bearing beam
for the house. The double walls we just built are on the blind side of this beam.

Am I seeing what you need me to see?

----
As to doubling the ceiling joist ... I'm NO expert for sure, so I can only speak to what I've
seen/told & what builders do. The Main Load Bearing Beam installed in original construction of
the house consist of 4 2x7-1/2's all nailed together... a common practice that I've seen.

"If so, that pic was taken through the area [side] where the door will be going in.
As yet we don't have the wall studs in there yet."

That's it, the door opening had me guessing what I was seeing, it's cool now, I can go back to sleep

xSpace wrote:"If so, that pic was taken through the area [side] where the door will be going in.
As yet we don't have the wall studs in there yet."

That's it, the door opening had me guessing what I was seeing, it's cool now, I can go back to sleep

You and me BOTH

Small progress report.

Not much time available today, but we did get a few of the corner 'nailer' studs
put in.

I must say, with the addition of the corner nailers, the inner room structure has become
even more solid

?Question?

I've enclosed a pix of the rear left corner of the Control Room. What we are looking at
is the nailing surface that we will have in each of the perimeter 'breaks'. Behind the kick-in
wall [which can't be seen] are now 3 wall studs [basically the side wall end stud, and 2 added
fill studs]. Right now a full stud exposure is showing on each wall corner. The concern is that this is
still NOT enough screwing surface for the drywall.

Since we've been instructed to maintain ~ 1/4" gap between perimeter edges [BTW, I was
thinking of using 'wooden paint stirrers' as spacers ] AND, that there are to be 2
layers of 5/8" drywall, it seems that we will have a small 'hit zone' for the drywall screws.

So ... I have the 2x4's [or would certainly get more] ... but I want to be sure that this
would not cause an issue, by adding extra 2x4 corner studs to give us a comfortable screw area

The above question will also relate to the 'drywall install' segment of our show. What, they
term, the screw scheduale for each layer, and to what depth each layer is screwed?

As before ... thank-you for your experienced insight & guidance !

Sincerely.

"by adding extra 2x4 corner studs to give us a comfortable screw area"

Add the additional studs.

Agreed add the extra stud. Usually put the screws on 12" oc and stagger per layer so they are effectively 6" apart. If paranoid, 8" oc...