John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

looks amazing!

can't wait to see / hear more.

Aloha jeff,

Hey, thanks for stopping in. Long time no hear.

I had a couple of more ideas in regard to fine tuning this phase. I am still leaning to shifting the cloud over to the right about 3" (I know, picky, picky... ) but instead of pulling it out into the room, the second cloud Steve mentioned ought to accomplish what I had in mind.

I'll check with my contractor to see if I can use the leading edge hooks to support both Cloud 1 & Cloud 2, and then install another set of three for the other edge of the Cloud 2. If so, then it's on to building Cloud 2. Cool.

After that, few dabs of wood filler to cover the screw heads and a quick sanding and she'll be good to go.

As far as making a difference, it might be a little too soon to say. While I can hear the difference Cloud 1 makes, it's still a bit too subtle. I will try to post a listening test report after Cloud 2 goes up.

By the way, still no buzzing from the dimmer, and being able to see the console lettering is really nice.

Aloha

Hello Kendale, I see you soffit mounted your HR824's. Did you keep the factory default settings on the back of them prior to mounting them? If not, what did you change them to? Did you provide additional cooling; i.e. a silent fan for each speaker to prevent overheating?

Why the questions? Your work has enticed me to build acoustical walls and soffit mount my HR824's and I want to get it right! I am very impressed by your work. It looks GREAT.

What kind of finish wood did you use - oak? And what kind of varnish did you use? The overall color scheme is very warm and relaxing! Great job.

Michael

Aloha Michael,

Hey, thanks for stopping in.

Did you keep the factory default settings on the back of them prior to mounting them? If not, what did you change them to?

Unfortunately, while I did change them, I don't recall what the factory settings were. It's been awhile since I've had them. I had asked another forum member (Bryan Giles) which settings he used and this is his reply:

For space, A is selected. In the soffits it is like being in a corner and really loads up. At A all is well.

I run the HPF at Full (35Hz)

I adjusted the tweeter based on my room. That one might take a couple of tries. Do a mix and listen to it outside the studio. If it feels dark, turn the tweeter down (-2) Start at Zero. If it sounds bright, turn the tweeter to +2. Hope that helps, Bryan

Did you provide additional cooling; i.e. a silent fan for each speaker to prevent overheating?

Since there is a lot of air space and unobstructed path up to the heat vent, I did not install a fan. I have run several long sessions without any problems.

I am very impressed by your work. It looks GREAT. What kind of finish wood did you use - oak? And what kind of varnish did you use? The overall color scheme is very warm and relaxing! Great job.

Thanks. I'm glad you found it helpful. The trim and side absorbers are all out of hemlock, which happened to be what was available and affordable at Lowe's down in Kona. The front sofit wall unit/bezels are MDF with hemlock trim. I am hoping to add a veneer of light maple to the bezel fronts, but at the moment, there is no finish coat on anything. I think the "warm glow" comes from low lighting when I took the pics.

Why the questions? Your work has enticed me to build acoustical walls and soffit mount my HR824's and I want to get it right!

Be sure to post some pics so we can follow your project and progress.

Aloha

Thanks for the very quick reply. I asked about the heat knowing you are in Hawaii and the ambient temps much get way hotter than here - Alaska! We have Lowe's here in Anchorage so I will do some shopping there; I really am impressed in the hemlock look.

Did you leave the backs of the absorber panels open? Meaning are they constructed with a 2X4 fame and no back plywood applied to the side facing your walls?

I am leasing space in an Office Building that unfortunately has a suspended ceiling about 8'6" from the floor. I really like the advanced cloud you constructed. How much would you guess your cloud weighs?

Pictures of the progress as it progresses? Sure. I already have received the Material from Acoustical Sciences (?) I believe that is the company back East (New York?) not sure I have had it for four months now...

It is time to begin construction.
Thanks again for sharing your work and inspiration.

Michael

Aloha Michael,

Did you leave the backs of the absorber panels open? Meaning are they constructed with a 2X4 fame and no back plywood applied to the side facing your walls?

If you are refering to front soffit units, they are completely enclosed - front, back, sides, top & bottom. This approach was taken because of the "temporary" location and least invasive damage to the house. The side absorbers are also enclosed in the back.

One thing to consider is the weight of the acoustical treatment used. Are you on the ground floor?

How much would you guess your cloud weighs?

I would guess 60-75 lbs.

Looking forward to your project.

Aloha

Kendale,

I don't think this is OT but I've noticed that everybody mounts their ceiling clouds from chains/wires/rope etc. I know there should be an air space between the absorbant material and the ceiling. My question is does this need to be open around the edges like yours?

I was going to make my cloud frame out of 1x6 and then use 4" mineral wool in it, and then flush mount it to the ceiling. I'd have an air gap between the back of the insulation and the ceiling but it most of the perimeter would be up against the ceiling.

Do this make things better or worse?

Thanks for the intrusion.

len

from what i know (which aint much), a different size air gap will mean that different frequencies are affected. the larger the air gap, the lower the frequency affected.

which brings me to my question:

would it make more sense to angle the cloud so that the air gap is varied and the cloud affects a range of frequencies instead of just one? seems to me that if you don't vary the air gap then certain frequencies will be cut, similar to using eq. this would then create a "hole" in your room frequency response.

any merit to this?

as far as flush mounting the cloud, i have seen instances where a user drilled holes in the frame so the sound could enter from the sides as well, effectively increasing the surface area of the insulation that is exposed, and increasing the overall absorption. although at a novice glance it would make more sense to have an air gap and although it would lower the overall weight of the cloud, i doubt drilling holes in the frame is very safe.

Aloha,

Hey guys. Thanks for asking.

When I got to the point of hanging the cloud, I posted a similar question (page 10, 7 posts down.) Here's the response I got from Steve:

Assumptions -
Drawing is somewhat to scale
Clouds have no solid backs behind absorbent

In that case, pic 2 would be better, because geometrically it "hides" more of the vaulted ceiling - if you draw lines from speaker to UN-treated ceiling behind the mix position, there's a possibility of reflections back to the mix position (as shown) and Pic 2 comes closer to absorbing these reflections.

Moving the cloud rearward a bit might take care of this; if not, a second one above and to the rear may be necessary - something like this...Steve

I had initially wanted the rear edge to be up against the ceiling, which would give the front about 12" of a drop. Given that the eye hooks were 6" long, it got to be pretty tough turning, so we ended up leaving them about an inch longer. Add to that the 3" carabineer (two of them in the front), 8" cloud hook, and then 12" of chain to level it off, we ended up with about 18" of a drop in the front.

Hope this helps,

Aloha

Good day Kendale,

One thing to consider is the weight of the acoustical treatment used. Are you on the ground floor?

I am actually on the second floor of a Class A Office building. This part of the cinder block building is directly over a parking lot. I am located in a corner of the building and next door to my suite is a suite used solely for storage; no one works there!

My control room measures 20' L by 12' W by 8 1/2' H. I am thinking of building soffit wall and absorber walls like your pictures. How much weight would you estimate these walls weigh in your studio? I am a little concerned about the additional weight load in my case.

Thanks again for your comments and advice.

Michael

kendale, gotcha.

my computer was fried and couldn't see any images before.

didn't see that your ceiling was slanted, giving you broad band frequency response from your cloud.

Aloha

Michael wrote:

I am actually on the second floor of a Class A Office building. This part of the cinder block building is directly over a parking lot. I am located in a corner of the building and next door to my suite is a suite used solely for storage; no one works there!

My control room measures 20' L by 12' W by 8 1/2' H. I am thinking of building soffit wall and absorber walls like your pictures. How much weight would you estimate these walls weigh in your studio? I am a little concerned about the additional weight load in my case.

One bit of advice that keeps reoccurring here regarding the weight issue, is to get an inspection/approval from a structural engineer. That way you'll know for sure what you are able to do, and will have the peace of mind knowing that its safe and legal.

I ended up building panels 1/4 of the size prescribed here: http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm and they ended up weighing in at about 60 lbs a unit, not to mention the weight of the front wall unit, equipment rack, fully loaded bookshelf, console, instruments, and occupants.

Choose wisely and be safe

Hope this helps,

Aloha

Hi Kendale,

I just wanted to join in and say that your cloud is absolutely stunning and beautiful. I am as jealous as everyone else.

You're very skilled.

Aloha Kathy,

Thanks for stopping in

From the look of things on your studio build, you're not doing too badly there, yourself, eh? Great job on the drum riser!

Aloha

Aloha,

A little off-topic update: I had a chance to visit a Woodcraft store over on Oahu a couple of weeks ago, and in talking with the store owner, got turned onto a line of tools by Festool, namely the TS 55 EQ Portable circular plunge-cut saw with guide rail. This tool system is amazing!

If I had had this tool while building the studio treatments, it would have saved me ton of time and aggravation and it's well worth the investment, in my opinion. (I picked up the TS 55 EQ and the Multifunction table MFT 1080 package.) It's a little on the pricey side, but if you have the chance to check it out, I would highly recommend it! http://www.festoolusa.com/catalog.aspx

Aloha

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