UAN - new Control Room build

[RJHollins]

Well, trying to make some progress here ....

After 3 days, no electrician. So, found out one of my past clients is one.
He's was very interested, and even expressed many of the 'concerns' that go into building
studio rooms. He's coming over Mon afternoon

Tomorrow one of the better finishing carpenters is supposed to come over. I want him to look over the plans ... in particular, things like the door construction.

[RJHollins]

Amongst other things, got a meeting in today with my contractor to review the design and layout, and to clarify the ordering of materials. These guys deal with the bigger lumber companies, which have a larger selection of dimensional lumber sizes. The prices are a little better ... plus ... why waste.

A few observation and questions came up along the way ...

1. I don't know if it really matters, but he'd like to use treated lumber for the bottom plates of the 2x4 walls that sit on the concrete.

2. He also asked if we are putting anything under these bottom plates, like foam or rubber, or just 'plain' to the floor . And do we want to 'Liquid Nail' to the concrete floor ?

3. He asked whether the drywall should be 'mold resistant', or regular?

4. He understands that the 'inner' 2x4 wall is an entity unto itself [other than the WIC clips], but was wondering about the 2 outer walls?

Specifically ... should they be solidly attached to the existing structure? By that, I mean, do we attach the top sill plates to the floor joist above ? What about near the 'main load bearing beam' in the center? AND ... the 2 points where the outer wall goes to the concrete walls ... can we nail or Liquid Nail an anchor 2x4 to the concrete wall??? If so ... any special treatment to do ???

I've been trying to read as many of the pertinent threads both here and on Rods' forum, as well as readings from 'The Bible' , and although I've been trying to learn as we go, I have also gotten confused along the way

A side note ... been over to the Green Glue guys ... looks like I start with 5 cases of GG, and 2 cases of Acoustic Sealant.

Owww ... been working off of the 'Super Door' design from Rod ... and my brother mentions that he has a 1 3/4", 36" solid oak door, that has never been touched [no window, nor knob hole .... clean] in storage. Said it must weight 300 lbs.
If its as described, I told him consider it sold !!

I'd like to post a SU file for critique Still workin' on it ...

The new electrician is supposed to come over in the afternoon ... he says he has another recording project for me ... I told him I need a room to do my work. If we can help each other ... that would be nice.

Well, that's the latest k-news here.

All shared insights on above questions is sincerely appreciated ... THANK-YOU!!

[know any good HVAC guys in my area ...... still another part to work out ... please help me

[gullfo]

you could use the treated wood for the bottom plate. i'd recommend putting the walls on sorbothane or neoprene to decouple from the floor and/or overhead joists if you're planning to attach them. no liquid nails anywhere please. use washer and rubber to decouple the floor anchors. the outer walls should be decoupled via WIC and/or RISC clips so there is no solid attachment anywhere. study Rod's fire stops carefully as they are critical for safety.

[xSpace]

"4. He understands that the 'inner' 2x4 wall is an entity unto itself [other than the WIC clips], but was wondering about the 2 outer walls?

Specifically ... should they be solidly attached to the existing structure? By that, I mean, do we attach the top sill plates to the floor joist above ? What about near the 'main load bearing beam' in the center? AND ... the 2 points where the outer wall goes to the concrete walls ... can we nail or Liquid Nail an anchor 2x4 to the concrete wall??"


You should really post some type of floor layout...all those clips and walls and what-ever...it just reads like a bunch of things that may be in conflict, but that is why we love pix

[Soundman2020]

1. I don't know if it really matters, but he'd like to use treated lumber for the bottom plates of the 2x4 walls that sit on the concrete.

Sounds like a good idea to me!

2. He also asked if we are putting anything under these bottom plates, like foam or rubber, or just 'plain' to the floor . And do we want to 'Liquid Nail' to the concrete floor ?

Yup. You will be sealing all of that with caulk. The "overkill" method (and thus highly recommended here...) is to run three beads of caulk under the bottom plate: one down the center and one close to each edge. Then another bead under the edge of each layer of drywall. Another option if your floor is very uneven, is to use some type of rubber to give you the seal.

As for how to attach the framing to the floor, that depends on code: Where I live (Chile, land of earthquakes) the framing has to be bolted to the floor: we don't want walls bouncing around on the floor...

3. He asked whether the drywall should be 'mold resistant', or regular?

Probably not a bad idea to have it mold resistant, if that is generally used in your area. Apart from that, tell him you want the thickest, most dense stuff he can find at a (within reason!) while at the same time being as cheap as possible.

4. He understands that the 'inner' 2x4 wall is an entity unto itself [other than the WIC clips], but was wondering about the 2 outer walls?

TWO outer walls PLUS an inner wall??? !!! Sounds like you are building a three-leaf wall there! Bad idea!

Like Brien said: photos and accurate diagrams would help a lot to understand what you are planning....

The new electrician is supposed to come over in the afternoon ...

Did you mention star grounding and separate circuits?


- Stuart -

[RJHollins]

Hi Stuart !!!

Hope all is well ... always good to hear from ya !

First and foremost ....

TWO outer walls PLUS an inner wall??? !!! Sounds like you are building a three-leaf wall there! Bad idea!

Like Brien said: photos and accurate diagrams would help a lot to understand what you are planning....

no no ... not doing that ! I have a SU file [v8] post at the end of p6 here ... The only 2 new framed walls are the ones NOT on the concrete walls. So basically its' a single framed inner wall on 4 sides, and then an outer framed wall on the 2 exposed walls to the 'rest of the basement'.
Unless I botched it up, [which I know Glenn woulda slapped me around on ;|], the walls should be as you first proposed.

*** I'm posting a V7 SketchUP file [a V8 file is @ end of p.6 on this thread]

All you guys have been teaching me very important concepts Having 'experienced' eyes looking over my shoulder is very welcomed !

Another option if your floor is very uneven, is to use some type of rubber to give you the seal.

It may well be uneven ... but for sure there is a slope ---> heads right toward the sump pump.

The rubber, or "sorbothane or neoprene to decouple from the floor and/or overhead joists if you're planning to attach them."

?question? are we talking 1/4" kind of stuff ?
Order wise, is it caulk on concrete, rubber on top of that, and then 2x4 ?? Sounds like a dumb questions, but I'm sure there is a tried/true method

As for how to attach the framing to the floor, that depends on code: Where I live (Chile, land of earthquakes) the framing has to be bolted to the floor: we don't want walls bouncing around on the floor...

ahh yeah ... reminds me of my years in LA.

I guess one can never say never ... here in WNY, what we don't get with the Earth shaking, we make up for it in snow

use washer and rubber to decouple the floor anchors.

ok ... thanks also for the pic Glenn. I read up more on this. One thing for certain ... the concrete in this basement is the REAL DEAL [50 yrs old]. It'll take impact drill to get bolts into it [and maybe a stick of dynamite].

well ... let me get these files posted here !!!

BTW .... the depiction for the studio door in the SU file is merely a placeholder.
I'm modeling off of the Super Door in Rods' book for the actual design [will post later on that].

The electrician DID come today. He's also a jazz guitar teacher ... has a home studio in his basement, and could definitely relate to what I'm doing here. The first step will be clearing the joist of wires and re-routing. This WILL start Monday morning

it's the little things in life that bring a smile to the face

again ... BIG THANKS !!!

[xSpace]

I have a hard time, if this were mine, trying to justify the cost and labor and the learning curve for using wic clips especially in such a small place that is not going to be subject to a lot of movement as might a longer wall or something constructed on a fault line.

Installing 1/2" OSB vertically on the inside of the build would do exactly what you are attempting and would completely break any connection. You can run it all the way around the interior perimeter or use it in all corners both faces and reduce the wall to basically a five foot +/- opening that has to be filled.

The joists keep the walls at a constant width so any pressure on the one wall will be aided by the opposing wall and with the addition of the lower cost OSB, you will have some extra change for aspirin

[Soundman2020]

I was thinking the same thing. I don't see the need for sway braces or clips on relatively short walls, where plywood or OSB can do a great job of keeping it all together, plus you have the benefit of a nailing surface all around your room (if you don't build it inside out, of course).

- Stuart -

[RJHollins]

Are you guys trying to save me a bunch of time, effort and MONEY !!!

Bless you Sincerely !!

Unfortunately ... I don't quite understand what you are describing.

Installing 1/2" OSB vertically on the inside of the build would do exactly what you are attempting and would completely break any connection. You can run it all the way around the interior perimeter or use it in all corners both faces and reduce the wall to basically a five foot +/- opening that has to be filled.

I don't see the need for sway braces or clips on relatively short walls, where plywood or OSB can do a great job of keeping it all together, plus you have the benefit of a nailing surface all around your room (if you don't build it inside out, of course).

Somebody mentioned pictures ... if ya have anything that visually shows what you are describing ... I'd love to get on the same page with you [especially before I start ordering thing].

Also ... the warning from Stuart !!

if you don't build it inside out, of course

Is this what I have in my design ??? Please help me get a better understanding.

I very well understand that this is a small room [especially in the ceiling height].

And to be clear ... this room is solely for mixing & mastering. It will be entirely DAW based. That means I will have several 'server' computers networked to my main DAW. The ONLY other thing I would consider, is setting up my drumset in the back of the room to get some practice on. Basically, this will be a private room [so no handicap considerations necessary]. Most all my work arrives on DVD raw audio, or posted on a studio FTP storage site.

Of course, with the invaluable guidance I have been given, I want to do a good job of interpreting and implementing the design.

Just as Glenn has done ... if you see something in my SU file that is bad or a waste, I will be deeply grateful. Please help me visualize the better way to do this within my build limitations. Unfortunately, you are also dealing with one that does not quite know the 'lingo' of the building trade ... but I want to understand the best I can so that your design is properly executed on MY end

Thanks to everyone here.

Having the 'POWER TRIO' of Glenn, Stuart and Brien means more to me than I can express.

As I'm sure you ALL are aware .... trying to explain this to other people in my life ... including those who have enjoyed my 30 yrs in the business .... they still get the 'glazed eye' syndrome, or the 'no clue, but will tell you how to do it' reaction.

Monday, Nov 1st the 1st phase of building begins. Once the joists areas are cleared of several wires, we begin project 'Ceiling Beefup' exactly as Glenn has laid out. I'm gonna hit the concrete walls with a coat of nice dry-lock/mold deterrent paint. Then the show is on.
But I need to have this SU design/plan solid and clear. It will be the ONLY thing I have to guide the builders with. If they see it, they will do it.

Once again ... thank-you for bearing with my scatter-brained craziness ... I am without a room. can absolutely do no audio work ... and I'm jonesn'.

I knew you guys would understand. thank-you.

[gullfo]

basically use OSB panels on all of your framing to act as bracing. effectively you're adding a layer of 1/2" OSB on all the faces and then screwing your drywall into that. imho that's probably more expensive than 6 or so braces but it does make drywalling a bit easier and can contribute to the overall isolation. the outer wall can be attached to the house frame for support.

[xSpace]

I think the sway braces are going to cost more than 8+/- pieces of OSB, and no shipping

[gullfo]

guessing about 12 sheets @ $8 or 6 clips @ $20 - $96 vs $120 -- fair enough

edit: but then you have to factor in the additional screws, caulking, labor, etc... so per TomVan's note, the pizza and beer could cover the labor bits...

[TomVan]

guessing about 12 sheets @ $8 or 6 clips @ $20 - $96 vs $120 -- fair enough

$24 ...Just enough for Beer and pizza to keep the natives happy
Peace
Tom

[xSpace]

True, but what if no one has a hammer drill...there is another rental cost.

Then you have red heads...mine was just another option, I'll go back to sleep now

[gullfo]

i'd suggest letting the local contractor sort out which bracing option is cost effective and feasible for your job. the key is to keep the inner walls decoupled from the outer walls and safely supporting the new ceiling.