Floating Ceiling with Spring Mounted Shock Absorbers
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Mr. Beasty
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Floating Ceiling with Spring Mounted Shock Absorbers
We are looking at building our studio in the basement of our house, primarily for the purpose of recording rock music. Does anyone happen to know if the floating ceiling with spring mounted shock absorbers is a reliable sound barrier and what the cost associated with this system would be?
G.A.S.? ... If symptom persits, consult a physician!
"We'd be as rich as the Stones if we sold as many records as them" --Vim Fuego (Bad News)
"We'd be as rich as the Stones if we sold as many records as them" --Vim Fuego (Bad News)
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jazzman
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knightfly
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The hangers themselves should work fine, as long as you stay within the load specs per individual hanger.
The actual STC rating would be dependent on the actual floated ceiling construction, and the proper caulking around the perimeter.
For a basement studio, if headroom isn't a problem they would be fine - otherwise, you can get about the same STC using RC on the floor joists, with less headroom loss... Steve
The actual STC rating would be dependent on the actual floated ceiling construction, and the proper caulking around the perimeter.
For a basement studio, if headroom isn't a problem they would be fine - otherwise, you can get about the same STC using RC on the floor joists, with less headroom loss... Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...
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Mr. Beasty
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Ceiling Proofin'
knightfly wrote:The hangers themselves should work fine, as long as you stay within the load specs per individual hanger.
The actual STC rating would be dependent on the actual floated ceiling construction, and the proper caulking around the perimeter.
For a basement studio, if headroom isn't a problem they would be fine - otherwise, you can get about the same STC using RC on the floor joists, with less headroom loss... Steve
Thanks Steve, can you be more specific about your solution?
We reviewed several options: building a stand alone studio (best but expensive) vs. building the studio in a house basement (cheaper but comes w/ home). The best of both world is for use to build a new home w/ extra tall basement ceiling and heavy soundproofing. Do you have any special recommendations?
G.A.S.? ... If symptom persits, consult a physician!
"We'd be as rich as the Stones if we sold as many records as them" --Vim Fuego (Bad News)
"We'd be as rich as the Stones if we sold as many records as them" --Vim Fuego (Bad News)
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knightfly
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This is a post I wrote on another board, it's easier than re-writing it all -
The least amount of ceiling height loss can be had for relatively cheap.
If you want good isolation from above, I would fit two layers of 5/8" sheet rock between each joist, using plenty of non-hardening, non-shrinking, either silicone or butyl caulk. If you can afford it, go for either Owens Corning or USG's Acoustic-rated caulk.
Retain these two layers with cleats fastened to the joists, up against the lower layer of sheet rock in each joist cavity. Caulk here too.
Place at least r-ll, preferably r-19 insulation between the joists and fasten as normal (staples)
Mount RC-1 Resilient Channel perpendicular to the joists, using at least 1-1/2" screws. Put the RC every 12".
Put masking tape or other removable markers on walls, or wherever they can be seen once the first layer of sheet rock is on the RC - these are your locators for screws for the second layer of sheet rock (and the first, for that matter) Also, put these markers on the OTHER two walls where the joists are - this is where you DO NOT put any screws when you're fastening the sheet rock - otherwise, you'll run the risk of "shorting out" the Resilient Channel. Not good.
These same markers can be used for reference so that you stagger screw placement in successive layers, so they don't collide and mess up the surface, etc - if you put one layer's screws offset 4" from the joist markers, put the next layer's screws offset by 8", etc...
All in all, put at least two layers of sheet rock on the channel - a layer of Celotex or similar between layers of sheet rock would be good too.
Be sure and put alternate layers oriented at right angles, to minimise crack bleed - caulk everything as you go.
This method, before any "cloud hangings", will only lower your ceiling about 1-3/4" with two layers of 5/8 sheet rock, or about 2-1/4" if you add a sandwich layer of 1/2" Celotex between.
It should give you at least 60 dB of isolation from/to above rooms, depending on the floor covering, etc.
Basic rule: if it won't float, it ain't soundproof... Steve
The least amount of ceiling height loss can be had for relatively cheap.
If you want good isolation from above, I would fit two layers of 5/8" sheet rock between each joist, using plenty of non-hardening, non-shrinking, either silicone or butyl caulk. If you can afford it, go for either Owens Corning or USG's Acoustic-rated caulk.
Retain these two layers with cleats fastened to the joists, up against the lower layer of sheet rock in each joist cavity. Caulk here too.
Place at least r-ll, preferably r-19 insulation between the joists and fasten as normal (staples)
Mount RC-1 Resilient Channel perpendicular to the joists, using at least 1-1/2" screws. Put the RC every 12".
Put masking tape or other removable markers on walls, or wherever they can be seen once the first layer of sheet rock is on the RC - these are your locators for screws for the second layer of sheet rock (and the first, for that matter) Also, put these markers on the OTHER two walls where the joists are - this is where you DO NOT put any screws when you're fastening the sheet rock - otherwise, you'll run the risk of "shorting out" the Resilient Channel. Not good.
These same markers can be used for reference so that you stagger screw placement in successive layers, so they don't collide and mess up the surface, etc - if you put one layer's screws offset 4" from the joist markers, put the next layer's screws offset by 8", etc...
All in all, put at least two layers of sheet rock on the channel - a layer of Celotex or similar between layers of sheet rock would be good too.
Be sure and put alternate layers oriented at right angles, to minimise crack bleed - caulk everything as you go.
This method, before any "cloud hangings", will only lower your ceiling about 1-3/4" with two layers of 5/8 sheet rock, or about 2-1/4" if you add a sandwich layer of 1/2" Celotex between.
It should give you at least 60 dB of isolation from/to above rooms, depending on the floor covering, etc.
Basic rule: if it won't float, it ain't soundproof... Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...
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Mr. Beasty
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Thank you Steve,knightfly wrote:It should give you at least 60 dB of isolation from/to above rooms, depending on the floor covering, etc.
Basic rule: if it won't float, it ain't soundproof... Steve
If I wanted to double the dB reduction level (to 120 db) what should I do? Just doubling what you just posted would be overkill, right? Soundproofing layers have exponential results (right?) so a couple more layers or ruber/drywall should get me to 120 db ?
G.A.S.? ... If symptom persits, consult a physician!
"We'd be as rich as the Stones if we sold as many records as them" --Vim Fuego (Bad News)
"We'd be as rich as the Stones if we sold as many records as them" --Vim Fuego (Bad News)
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knightfly
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- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
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Sorry, I really wish it worked that way - if you doubled the mass in both leaves, top and bottom, you might gain another 10 dB or so - the only "exponential" relationship I know of is that of air space, and I'm not sure if that works inside walls or just in free air. In free air, sound level decreases as the square of the distance (inverse square law)
In a partition, extra air space helps but I'm not sure just how much. As far as extra layers, you get about 6 dB per PAIR of 5/8" sheet rock panels, provided you have decoupling between the frames, such as staggered studs or Resilient Channel.
The problem with doing that in a ceiling, is that if you are using a suspended ceiling there is a limit to the weight you can suspend without running into other problems.
As to 120 dB separation, the only practical way I know of to get that much separation is to have your control room in a different town...Seriously, I'm not real heavy into the math, but you'd probably have to have separate buildings, each built to STC-65, separated by 100 yards with a heavy forest and a couple of foot-thick, 20 foot tall concrete walls in between the buildings.
The best isolation I've ever even HEARD of, and this is only hearsay, is 100 dB between rooms at Galaxy Studios, somewhere in the Netherlands.
Keep in mind, that any chain is as strong as it WEAKEST link - so, if you want any windows whatever you're wasting time and money trying to build partitions that exceed maybe 65 dB - ANY window will lower that, no matter HOW it's built. (Except, MAYBE, if you could afford to use 2" lexan for one side, and maybe 1-1/2" laminated glass for the other side, and didn't make ANY mistakes in wall isolation techniques, etc)
If you had the headroom available to suspend each room's ceiling separately from the above floor joists, and IF those joists could hold the extra weight, building a single leaf, 4-layer drywall ceiling with 2x12 framing, supported by the Kinetics isolators on stainless aircraft cable with about 6" of heavy Rockwool covering the drywall between the 2x12's, caulked heavily with REAL acoustic caulk inside and out, might get you 70 dB between rooms, IF (weakest link theory again) everything ELSE was that good.
There comes a point where things just get ridiculous, and about half of what I talked about above succeeded in passing that point.
Back to your original question - "We are looking at building our studio in the basement of our house, primarily for the purpose of recording rock music. Does anyone happen to know if the floating ceiling with spring mounted shock absorbers is a reliable sound barrier and what the cost associated with this system would be? " -
First, the cost of the Kinetics isolators is somewhere between $25 and $40 EACH, depending on style - they can be had as brackets that mount to your upper floor joists , with an adjustable suspension for mounting T-style ceiling grids. The whole system is very expensive and takes up more headroom than the RC method I described earlier, with the added disadvantage of having to find a way to seal each and every panel in the T-grid system.
Neither system, nor anything else that is even semi-affordable, would be enough so that you could put a light sleeper directly overhead and track heavy metal drums downstairs at night. They would still hear the kick drum, as a muffled thud.
Any studio space that is part of a house is going to be a compromise. That's why my next facility will be a free-standing, 8" thick solid concrete shell separated from the house by 6 feet of air at it's closest point, with the inner layer of the outer walls having several layers of high density, dissimilar mass panels over 6" studs, etc - By using a properly isolated sound lock entrance I'm expecting to achieve at least 70 dB isolation from outside to inside, but still less than that between adjacent rooms. More than that is wasting money and pipedreaming. By putting the drum booth the farthest away from the control room, there will be enough isolation to use monitors for mic placement if I want to - more than that and you're just doing it so you can say you did. I'd rather spend that time making music... Steve
In a partition, extra air space helps but I'm not sure just how much. As far as extra layers, you get about 6 dB per PAIR of 5/8" sheet rock panels, provided you have decoupling between the frames, such as staggered studs or Resilient Channel.
The problem with doing that in a ceiling, is that if you are using a suspended ceiling there is a limit to the weight you can suspend without running into other problems.
As to 120 dB separation, the only practical way I know of to get that much separation is to have your control room in a different town...Seriously, I'm not real heavy into the math, but you'd probably have to have separate buildings, each built to STC-65, separated by 100 yards with a heavy forest and a couple of foot-thick, 20 foot tall concrete walls in between the buildings.
The best isolation I've ever even HEARD of, and this is only hearsay, is 100 dB between rooms at Galaxy Studios, somewhere in the Netherlands.
Keep in mind, that any chain is as strong as it WEAKEST link - so, if you want any windows whatever you're wasting time and money trying to build partitions that exceed maybe 65 dB - ANY window will lower that, no matter HOW it's built. (Except, MAYBE, if you could afford to use 2" lexan for one side, and maybe 1-1/2" laminated glass for the other side, and didn't make ANY mistakes in wall isolation techniques, etc)
If you had the headroom available to suspend each room's ceiling separately from the above floor joists, and IF those joists could hold the extra weight, building a single leaf, 4-layer drywall ceiling with 2x12 framing, supported by the Kinetics isolators on stainless aircraft cable with about 6" of heavy Rockwool covering the drywall between the 2x12's, caulked heavily with REAL acoustic caulk inside and out, might get you 70 dB between rooms, IF (weakest link theory again) everything ELSE was that good.
There comes a point where things just get ridiculous, and about half of what I talked about above succeeded in passing that point.
Back to your original question - "We are looking at building our studio in the basement of our house, primarily for the purpose of recording rock music. Does anyone happen to know if the floating ceiling with spring mounted shock absorbers is a reliable sound barrier and what the cost associated with this system would be? " -
First, the cost of the Kinetics isolators is somewhere between $25 and $40 EACH, depending on style - they can be had as brackets that mount to your upper floor joists , with an adjustable suspension for mounting T-style ceiling grids. The whole system is very expensive and takes up more headroom than the RC method I described earlier, with the added disadvantage of having to find a way to seal each and every panel in the T-grid system.
Neither system, nor anything else that is even semi-affordable, would be enough so that you could put a light sleeper directly overhead and track heavy metal drums downstairs at night. They would still hear the kick drum, as a muffled thud.
Any studio space that is part of a house is going to be a compromise. That's why my next facility will be a free-standing, 8" thick solid concrete shell separated from the house by 6 feet of air at it's closest point, with the inner layer of the outer walls having several layers of high density, dissimilar mass panels over 6" studs, etc - By using a properly isolated sound lock entrance I'm expecting to achieve at least 70 dB isolation from outside to inside, but still less than that between adjacent rooms. More than that is wasting money and pipedreaming. By putting the drum booth the farthest away from the control room, there will be enough isolation to use monitors for mic placement if I want to - more than that and you're just doing it so you can say you did. I'd rather spend that time making music... Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...
