John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Im a young guy, i live with my mom. I have had medical issues so Im not financially independent enough to move out on my own. A couple months ago I scored an amazing deal on some Mackie HR824 monitors which are absolutely amazing but showed the glaring flaws of the 1 bedroom I currently can work in. Its an awkward shaped room in a wood apartment building so volumes cannot be very loud, already dealing with noise complaints from monitoring too high. These complaints are mostly because for me to hear my bass decent enough I need to turn it up very loud, but if i move into other parts of the room the bass is just overwhelmingly loud.

My room has some serious standing waves/null issues, where the bass completely just disappears. I have helped remedy it by pushing the monitors as close to the walls as possible since there is not enough room for me to move off the wall. I was most likely going to put some 4 inch rockwool absorption panels on the front wall as per this guide http://arqen.com/acoustics-101/speaker- ... erference/

I will upload a totally not to scale room image with proper dimensions to help you guys get an idea what im working with here. Its rather rough but its a starting point for you guys to work with. I will add any sort of measurements that are needed.

Right now Im mostly just looking for how to maximize the conditions of my room the best possible. I don't want the "willing to do anything for acoustics" route. Im willing to build some traps and paneling out of rockwool but at this very moment im very budget constrained and cannot make major changes to the room(aka building speakers into the wall and etc. Hell I can't even really find another position for my bed to let me sit anywhere in the room.

I know the room will never sound perfect but im trying to mix my breakout album here so one day I can come to you guys to help build me a proper studio. Help me maximize the sub-standard mixing environment that I have to work it. Because its not about the card you are dealt but how you play them.

Room image: Yellow is a lowered ceiling area, pink is rough speaker placement, green is monitoring position

HI there "mkultra", and welcome!

I scored an amazing deal on some Mackie HR824 monitors

Nice! Those are pretty decent for a home studio. Lucky you!

which are absolutely amazing but showed the glaring flaws of the 1 bedroom I currently can work in

Yup! That's normally what happens when you get good monitors: they spotlight the defects in the room acoustics, and also spotlight the defects in your mixes. Which is what they are supposed to do! But if the room defects are bigger than the mix defects, you'll never be able to hear the mix defects, so you won't be able to fix them...

These complaints are mostly because for me to hear my bass decent enough I need to turn it up very loud, but if i move into other parts of the room the bass is just overwhelmingly loud.

That implies two things at once: 1) You do not have your mix position and speakers set up in the correct places in the room, and 2) You do not have enough bass trapping in the room.

Question: Is it possible to re-arrange the layout of your room? If so, I would suggest rotating the orientation 90° to the left, such that the front of the room is where the window is. That would be a much, much better layout than being in that alcove on the wall.

My room has some serious standing waves/null issues, where the bass completely just disappears.

Right. All small rooms have that problem.

I have helped remedy it by pushing the monitors as close to the walls as possible

Right, that's the correct thing to do in your situation. But that only helps to deal with SBIR problems: it does nothing to deal with the modal problems in the room (standing waves). SBIR is not a modal problem, and is not due to standing waves, but the bass issues you are experiencing that remain after moving the speakers up to the front wall, are going to be modal. The solution to that is bass traps. Large ones.

I was most likely going to put some 4 inch rockwool absorption panels on the front wall as per this guide

Right. But not the complete front wall. Just the area behind the speakers, and a foot or two out to either side, and above and below the speaker.

What you did by moving the speakers up to the front wall is to shift the SBIR problem up to a higher frequency. The mineral wool panels will help to reduce that problem. It would not have worked with the speakers away from the wall, as the SBIR problem would have been at a frequency that is too low for the insulation to treat, but pushing the speakers to the front wall moved the SBIR problem up to a higher frequency that actually can be treated with the insulation.

But that won't fix your bass problems.

I will upload a totally not to scale room image with proper dimensions to help you guys get an idea what im working with here. Its rather rough but its a starting point for you guys to work with. I will add any sort of measurements that are needed

Great, but please also post some photos of the room, so we can see better what you are dealing with. There might be things in the room that you didn't notice, that can be causing other issues.

Right now Im mostly just looking for how to maximize the conditions of my room the best possible.

OK, but first we need to understand exactly what the acoustic problems are in your room. You will need to download and run the REW acoustic analysis software, from here: http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ . It is free, but you will need an acoustic measurement mic to be able to use it properly. A good one cost less than US$ 100. Follow the instructions here to calibrate REW and do the measurement: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =3&t=21122

Im willing to build some traps and paneling out of rockwool

For bass trapping, there's a product by Owen Corning called OC-703 that is hard to beat! See if you can get that at your local Home Depot or other hardware store. It's better than mineral wool for what you need to do.

I know the room will never sound perfect

Perhaps not, but it can still be made a LOT better than it is now! Let's start with that REW test, and the photos, then we'll see what we can do to help you fix it.


- Stuart -

Thanks for taking the time to help me, really appreciate it.

Question: Is it possible to re-arrange the layout of your room? If so, I would suggest rotating the orientation 90° to the left, such that the front of the room is where the window is. That would be a much, much better layout than being in that alcove on the wall.

That would be rather difficult, the bed takes up such a massive part of the room it starts to make the room awkward to live in. I mean I could make it work but the desk would have to be offset to the right of the window due to the bed not leaving adequate room for my chair. I did try my monitors in that position and it made the issues hearing the lower frequencies almost impossible. Probably due the opposite wall having a closet and a small hall to the door.

Wouldn't having the monitors near the window make the issues difficult to resolve due the fact I cant put panels behind the monitors?

I also have to worry about the fact the wall with the xfiles poster is a shared wall with another tenant. Im not sure how much some rockwool panels will absorb but I have to be very mindful of noise and vibration in this wood apartment building.

Right, that's the correct thing to do in your situation. But that only helps to deal with SBIR problems: it does nothing to deal with the modal problems in the room (standing waves). SBIR is not a modal problem, and is not due to standing waves, but the bass issues you are experiencing that remain after moving the speakers up to the front wall, are going to be modal. The solution to that is bass traps. Large ones.

I am able to build bass traps in the corners that can actually be treated. One corner is has a closet door that needs to swing open so getting some in that one will be difficult. Another corner has door exiting the room with zero room to fit traps on either side of the door. The corners of the nook are very open and accessible for traps, same goes for the corners on either side of the window.

Great, but please also post some photos of the room, so we can see better what you are dealing with. There might be things in the room that you didn't notice, that can be causing other issues.

I am going to include photos, its tough to get great photos as the room is so small. Don't mind the fact its very cluttered, sadly i have to live 24/7 in this room so it fills more rolls than just a place for me to make noise. I can get more photos of anything that got missed.

OK, but first we need to understand exactly what the acoustic problems are in your room. You will need to download and run the REW acoustic analysis software, from here: http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ . It is free, but you will need an acoustic measurement mic to be able to use it properly. A good one cost less than US$ 100. Follow the instructions here to calibrate REW and do the measurement: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21122

This is a minor problem. I am extremely budget constrained due to being on a fixed budget due to health issues. By the guide for calibrating a microphone I need a sound meter and a mic. I found someone who could lend me a Behringer ECM8000 which is about the best I can do at this very moment and its going to be rather useless until I can get get a sound meter to calibrate it. This could take awhile due to financial constraints.

I will say right now since its the only information i can really give without a measurement. Just by listening to a sine sweep. That the biggest dip is from 65hz to 85hz. Everything from about 65hz 140hz and below is fairly quiet compared to the rest of the spectrum.

I will work hard to find a way to get a proper measurement. I live in a big city so im trying to see if i can rent/borrow a measurement mic and a sound meter.

For bass trapping, there's a product by Owen Corning called OC-703 that is hard to beat! See if you can get that at your local Home Depot or other hardware store. It's better than mineral wool for what you need to do

Here in Canada home depot doesnt carry owen corning OC-703 but I did get a decent sized pack of Roxul Comfortboard IS to build panels for behind the speakers. Which looks very very similar to rockwool products and OC-703. This is about the best I have to work with. I could try other hardware stores to see if they carry other brands but this product does seem to fit the requirements. My only grief is that its 1.5" thick instead of 2" so I have to settle with either 3" or 4.5" panels behind the speakers.

Right now I have enough absorption material for a few panels after the ones that would go behind my speakers. If you had to blindly pick any areas where you would you put traps without a measurement, Which would they be? I know shooting in the dark isn't a great way to build a studio but im not looking for perfect mixing environment but I can improve the mixing environment with easy fixes then I can trust my monitors a little more and have to rely less on headphones, earbuds and car audios systems to cross reference my mixes.


Heres the photos below of my room. Hopefully we can get closer to finding the glaring flaws of the room. I am willing to take more.