John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi gang,

I'm in the planning stage of designing a mixing room in my basement. I have no need for isolation of any kind. I wouldn't turn it down but it's of no concern at all. I have tried a few different setups down there and all were quite poor. So instead of just trying random stuff I thought a thorough plan is the best way forward. I don't know what to expect as far as budget goes but I would say $2,000 is a good amount for me. It could be more than that but it would just take longer to build which is ok.

Currently the walls are all thin wood paneling on 2x4's without any insulation. The walls behind that are concrete as are the floors. There's thin linoleum tile on part of the floor too. The ceiling is unfinished and is 7' 8" from the floor to the subfloor above with 7"x 2.5" floor joists underneath it. Basically I have a 7" deep cavity I can use.

My current thought is that I need at least 215 sq ft of floor space (read somewhere that 215 to 450 is ideal) and if I want to stay in the Bolt area then 17' x 13' x 7.5' is the best I can do. It's right on the edge of the Bolt area as shown on the Amroc site but I think it's still good. I would build this in the top right portion of the layout. One thing not in the drawing is a water meter in the upper right the corner.

The layout out I've attached shows dashed lines for 2 half walls but I can't move them. I can rebuild them if that helps. Also the other boxes around the lower perimeter are rooms that I can't move as they are the HVAC, laundry and a work room.

As far a gear, I'm mostly in the box and have no plans of ever owning a console. So its a computer and some outboard rack mount gear and that's it. I can keep a pretty small footprint.

1. Is a good sounding mix space even possible with ceilings this low?

2. Can I make the room any smaller? The basement gets used for other things so the less room I take up the better but sound is the biggest concern.

3. If i build the room this large I will also be rehearsing a band in there. I know it will sound terrible to play in but that's fine. We just need to get the mechanics of songs down. Will leaving all the amps and drums in the room ruin all the hard work of planning this room?

4. Is being in the bolt area important?

5. Is having a minimum of 215 sq ft of floor space a must? 13' x 10' x 7.5' is also in the Bolt area and would be great as far as taking up less room.

6. I'm assuming I need to build walls. What is the nature of the construction of those walls? Things are a little fuzzy between what's needed for isolation and what's needed for good sound.

7. What kind of treatment will I need to do? I'm guessing bass trapping but how much and where? What else?

8. Soffit mount my monitors? If so, how?


Any information that can point me in the right direction will be so greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Welcome!

then 17' x 13' x 7.5' is the best I can do. It's right on the edge of the Bolt area as shown on the Amroc site but I think it's still good. I would build this in the top right portion of the layout.

That should be fine!

1. Is a good sounding mix space even possible with ceilings this low?

That's pushing it for sure but you should be able to get a decent sounding room!

2. Can I make the room any smaller? The basement gets used for other things so the less room I take up the better but sound is the biggest concern.

You can do whatever you want but I would always recommend going bigger when possible.

3. If i build the room this large I will also be rehearsing a band in there. I know it will sound terrible to play in but that's fine. We just need to get the mechanics of songs down. Will leaving all the amps and drums in the room ruin all the hard work of planning this room?

Furniture and equipment can totally change the acoustics of a room. But if you look at people who pump out amazing mixes like Chris Lord-Alge, they have racks of gear behind them that are guaranteed to totally screw up the response of their rooms. So, I would recommend to not have gear in your mixing room but ultimately it's going to come down to whether you have the ambition to remove the gear for critical mixing sessions or not.

4. Is being in the bolt area important?

Yes but it's not the end of the world if you're not. Try your best to be in it if possible. Most of us on the forum are designing our rooms in not ideal buildings but we are striving for the best results knowing our limitations.

5. Is having a minimum of 215 sq ft of floor space a must? 13' x 10' x 7.5' is also in the Bolt area and would be great as far as taking up less room.

If you want a good sounding room, then yes, I would say a min of 215 sq ft is a rule you should try to abide by. This will ensure reasonable modal distribution.

6. I'm assuming I need to build walls. What is the nature of the construction of those walls? Things are a little fuzzy between what's needed for isolation and what's needed for good sound.

That's up to you. You could build traditional walls, inside out walls, or heck, you could build concrete walls. Inside out is a great solution for utilizing less materials but a traditional wall would offer better isolation. If you did build traditional walls, I would suggest at least having OSB on your studs before drywall to allow you to anchor treatment anywhere on the walls (structural integrity).

7. What kind of treatment will I need to do? I'm guessing bass trapping but how much and where? What else?

There are 12 corners in a rectangular room. All of those corners are great candidates for bass trapping. Tri-corners are your best bang for your buck in terms of bass trapping though. If you sift through the forum you will see several control rooms and how they went about treating them. Each room is unique so don't just copy what you see. Control room designs vary drastically and you will see that most control rooms are designed in a RFZ style on the forum as it is arguably the newest/best design right now.

8. Soffit mount my monitors? If so, how?

Soffit mounting your monitors results in a lot more design, build time and money but I highly recommend it as it fixes several common issues in listening rooms. This is a self help forum and again I will suggest that you sift through the forum and you will see several designs that you can elaborate on to suit your particular room. In several places on the forum, you will see guidelines and such.

Greg

Thanks a lot Greg. This is very helpful. I'll put up another post once I feel I have a more thorough plan, which I assume could be a while!

Sounds good! Keep all posts regarding your design/build on this here thread. It keeps the forum organized and helps people follow your entire process. This also helps people answer your questions. Thanks!

Greg

Well my needs for this space have changed. So we decided to have a kid (RAD!) but now playing drums inside the house is very problematic. It's a single story house with a basement. My plan is to build a room in the basement to contain the noise and my main goal is to maximize transmission loss. My max playing volume is about 110 dB. I'm hoping for a 70 dB reduction. I would like for people to be able to do things at a normal volume and not feel bothered. Actual quality of sound has to be secondary... which kills me but it is what it is. However, if there are manageable tweaks to be made that will improve the sound in the room, I'm interested.  

The outer dimensions of the room are 14'7"x8'6"x7'. The 7' ceiling height is really how low the joists come. There's actually another 8" of depth to the subfloor above to pack with insulation. So I won't loose much depth there. Im going to use 2x4's and I'll leave a gap of 1" between the inner and outer frames for a total of an 8" air gap. This leaves my inner dimensions of the room at 13'1'' x 7' x 7' before figuring in drywall depth. Anyway, it's pretty bad!

My plan is for a 2 leaf system. The construction of each leaf would be 2x4 framing (on 16" centers for inner leaf, 24" for outer), rockwool, 5/8" drywall, green glue, 1/2 drywall. seal all drywall seams and where framing meets the floor. make sure not to overlap drywall seams. I'm building this against 3 concrete walls so I'll just frame and insulate them. A few issues with this are 1. There is a water meter on the wall. 2. There's some HVAC duct work there too. 3.I'll be having to deal with a very small window out to a busy street.
Is it best to just cover over the window? Can I make a removable baffle that won't compromise the build?
What do I do about building around the water meter?
Will insulated HVAC tubing, run in between the ceiling joists, undermine my TL? Suggestions?
Do I lose much TL if I use OSB for one of the layers of my wall?
Do I need to fill the whole air gap with insulation or just between the studs?
Does the mismatch in drywall thickness actually help or should I go with maximum mass?

Ceiling same as the walls: Put joists across the top of the new framing, insulate, and put drywall on the joists. Being very careful to make sure that the new ceiling does not touch the existing ceiling, or the existing walls.
Does the floor above my head count as the first leaf in my 2 leaf ceiling? I imagine it does and that I should just fill it with insulation.

I'll use Quietputty around the outlet boxes and a wall plate gasket sound seal for the faces of the outlets.
I'm worried about electrical wire bridging the two leaves together. Should I be worried about this?

I'll make an HVAC silencer for fresh air. I'll build a second if it gets too hot in there (i already know it will) and tie into my existing hvac. 
How do I properly run the HVAC silencer through both leaves without bridging them?

If needed I was also going to make a drum riser like this: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... r+#p113503 

Doors I'm not too clear on...

Any obvious issues?

Thank you in advance to anyone who offers any advice. I've already learned a mountains worth of info from this board... so thanks!