John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi forum users.

I purchased a small block of land a couple of months ago and I’m eager to make a start on a home build in the near future.

I want my own drum rehearsal room to isolate the sound and keep the neighbours in the quiet courtyard happy.

It makes sense that I design the rehearsal room prior to finalising the house plans and then building the house, however I need to start building the house in the next few months and so I haven’t got the time to continue researching and then designing the drum room.

Therefore, to make an earlier start on my house I believe my best option is to hire the services of a Sound Designer/Engineer. My question is, does anyone offer that service here or know where I should look?

Hello & howdo' NGDrummer?
Congratulations on your new project!

It makes sense that I design the rehearsal room prior to finalising the house plans and then building the house.

Yes, I suppose it does - I notice that you describe it as both a "rehearsal room" and a "drum room". The very first thing to decide is exactly what you want the space to achieve, what do you want to do in it exactly?

I haven’t got the time to continue researching and then designing

Maybe not, but you may have sufficient time to decide enough of the details in order to start building. I'm not saying it will be easy or won't take up every moment of your spare time, but a few months may be long enough to figure out things like room dimensions, construction type, materials needed and so forth. There are lots of project threads on the forum and I'd be surprised if someone hadn't already done something very similar to what you have in mind, so I'd recommend investing some precious time in looking. Try here for starters:http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 10&t=21269 and http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21368

I believe my best option is to hire the services of a Sound Designer/Engineer.

I came to the same conclusion about 10 months ago when I decided I needed help designing my HVAC system. My experience has been that it's impossible to get this kind of help for a small self-build project. I intend to write more about this on my blog when I'm not so busy with my own build, but I approached 4 designers. I asked designer A (former administrator of this forum) because it was invariably him who answered my posts / questions and he agreed to do the work ( “shouldn't take too much time to do: probably just a few hours”). That was October 2019, he took a deposit, re-layered my sketchup drawing (maybe 2 hours work) and that was the end of his involvement. Despite repeated emails and messages (always measured and polite) he only replied once in April 2020, offering a fulsome apology and offering to " to give your project high priority now.” Because he'd acted in such bad faith, I declined and asked for a refund. Three more months of regular emails and radio silence finally resulted in him returning less than half the deposit just last week with the accompanying message "I think this is fair". In January 2020, I contacted designer B who offered to take a look and my plan and in March 2020 (after two gentle reminders) said he couldn't help. Designer C was a large acoustics consultancy firm in the UK who essentially patted me on the head and told me to go away (albeit in the politest way possible). The director explained that the company was currently working on a 40 room facility for an international corporation!! Designer D was also a professional studio design company in the UK who had built a magnificent commercial studio for a friend of mine. They agreed to help in February 2020, were communicative when I contacted them, but were clearly prioritising other work. I stopped emailing and calling in March to see if they would call me instead. So far they haven't.
So I wouldn't assume that getting a designer involved is going to speed up your process, it may well bring it grinding to a halt instead! Perhaps I have just been unlucky but I would encourage you to learn enough to instruct your builders how to build the shell of your studio and work out the rest in your own time. There is a wealth of information on the forum here and with the assistance of the community I'm sure you'll figure it out! Best wishes and good luck, John.

NGDrummer wrote:Hi forum users.

I purchased a small block of land a couple of months ago and I’m eager to make a start on a home build in the near future.

I want my own drum rehearsal room to isolate the sound and keep the neighbours in the quiet courtyard happy.

It makes sense that I design the rehearsal room prior to finalising the house plans and then building the house, however I need to start building the house in the next few months and so I haven’t got the time to continue researching and then designing the drum room.

Therefore, to make an earlier start on my house I believe my best option is to hire the services of a Sound Designer/Engineer. My question is, does anyone offer that service here or know where I should look?

Myself and others on the forum can help you for free. It sounds like a fairly straight forward room that you'd like to build - a rehearsal room for your drums rather than a critical mix room, is that right?

I am going to assume your biggest priority is sound reduction - although, are you sure you need it? How close are you to neighbours? And is it important that you reduce sound transmission to the rest of the house?

What are the maximum dimensions you have allocated for the rehearsal space? and what are the proposed construction materials?

Paul

Sound Isolation while remaining able to breathe and stay cool is pretty serious engineering.
A quiet courtyard containing neighbours really ups the odds.

But anything is possible with enough money and effort.

I find electronic drums much more conducive to rehearsal than the real thing.

Thanks for the replies fellas. I guess I didn’t give too much away as I had shared those details in a previous post. I’ll give you guys a bit more of a run down now.

The room I would like to create is for a drum kit and it will be a space that will allow me to practice without upsetting the neighbours and annoying anyone in the house. Ideally a comfortable enough size to also fit a couch. I’m not wanting to build a studio for recording purposes, if you heard me drumming you’d understand why.

So ultimately I’d like to build a room inside a room to isolate the sound to a level which the neighbours will struggle to hear from their house (10m/30ft away). A house plan that I have had roughly designed will give me a room with the dimensions of 9ft (H), 11’6” (W), 13’6” (L). I could potentially make this section of the concrete slab lower to get more height and also change the other dimensions slightly.

Given that I have a blank canvas to work with I’ll endeavour to find out what dimensions would work best for sound quality. It will have a spare bedroom above it. It’s a small block of land so the house needs to be multi level.

John you’ve had a rough time during the design process, thanks for the insight mate, I’ll proceed with caution. Hopefully things work out for you soon.

I would encourage you to learn enough to instruct your builders how to build the shell of your studio and work out the rest in your own time.

This is great advice and I realise now that this is what I need to do. I need to be able to go to my house designer and let them know that the outer dimension of this room needs to be ?(H) x ?(W) x ?(L) so that I can fit in the necessary HVAC silencers, the double doors and room inside a room and be left with a room of suitable dimensions for both comfort and sound quality. I can then work through the specifics of the rehearsal room while the house is being built and if I don’t get around to having the drum room built a year or 2 after the house build, so be it.

Myself and others on the forum can help you for free. It sounds like a fairly straight forward room that you'd like to build - a rehearsal room for your drums rather than a critical mix room, is that right?

That’s correct mate

I am going to assume your biggest priority is sound reduction - although, are you sure you need it? How close are you to neighbours? And is it important that you reduce sound transmission to the rest of the house?

Yeah it’s something that I really want/need and it will afford a bit of peace of mind when practicing the same things continuously.

What are the maximum dimensions you have allocated for the rehearsal space? and what are the proposed construction materials?

It’s still a blank canvas, so the dimensions are flexible. I don’t believe it needs to be any larger than 4m (13ft) x 6m (19ft) though. I could potentially go into the ground a little so height can vary to suit.
Timber frames, Rockwool, green glue and dry wall look like the options I’d use. I come from a family of bricklayers so maybe the outer room could be bricked.

Sound Isolation while remaining able to breathe and stay cool is pretty serious engineering.
A quiet courtyard containing neighbours really ups the odds.
But anything is possible with enough money and effort.

Yeah, which is why I’m prepared to have a larger mortgage than first planned.

I find electronic drums much more conducive to rehearsal than the real thing

I wish I could say the same. I wouldn’t need to go down this route otherwise. For me there’s no comparison to the feel of an acoustic kit. Several years ago I spent over 12 months converting my acoustic kit into an electronic kit to minimise noise. The kit itself is better than any professionally manufactured electronic kit I’ve played on but still it doesn’t excite me like an acoustic set

NGDrummer wrote:Thanks for the replies fellas. I guess I didn’t give too much away as I had shared those details in a previous post. I’ll give you guys a bit more of a run down now.

The room I would like to create is for a drum kit and it will be a space that will allow me to practice without upsetting the neighbours and annoying anyone in the house. Ideally a comfortable enough size to also fit a couch. I’m not wanting to build a studio for recording purposes, if you heard me drumming you’d understand why.

So ultimately I’d like to build a room inside a room to isolate the sound to a level which the neighbours will struggle to hear from their house (10m/30ft away). A house plan that I have had roughly designed will give me a room with the dimensions of 9ft (H), 11’6” (W), 13’6” (L). I could potentially make this section of the concrete slab lower to get more height and also change the other dimensions slightly.

Given that I have a blank canvas to work with I’ll endeavour to find out what dimensions would work best for sound quality. It will have a spare bedroom above it. It’s a small block of land so the house needs to be multi level.

John you’ve had a rough time during the design process, thanks for the insight mate, I’ll proceed with caution. Hopefully things work out for you soon.

I would encourage you to learn enough to instruct your builders how to build the shell of your studio and work out the rest in your own time.

This is great advice and I realise now that this is what I need to do. I need to be able to go to my house designer and let them know that the outer dimension of this room needs to be ?(H) x ?(W) x ?(L) so that I can fit in the necessary HVAC silencers, the double doors and room inside a room and be left with a room of suitable dimensions for both comfort and sound quality. I can then work through the specifics of the rehearsal room while the house is being built and if I don’t get around to having the drum room built a year or 2 after the house build, so be it.

Myself and others on the forum can help you for free. It sounds like a fairly straight forward room that you'd like to build - a rehearsal room for your drums rather than a critical mix room, is that right?

That’s correct mate

I am going to assume your biggest priority is sound reduction - although, are you sure you need it? How close are you to neighbours? And is it important that you reduce sound transmission to the rest of the house?

Yeah it’s something that I really want/need and it will afford a bit of peace of mind when practicing the same things continuously.

What are the maximum dimensions you have allocated for the rehearsal space? and what are the proposed construction materials?

It’s still a blank canvas, so the dimensions are flexible. I don’t believe it needs to be any larger than 4m (13ft) x 6m (19ft) though. I could potentially go into the ground a little so height can vary to suit.
Timber frames, Rockwool, green glue and dry wall look like the options I’d use. I come from a family of bricklayers so maybe the outer room could be bricked.

Sound Isolation while remaining able to breathe and stay cool is pretty serious engineering.
A quiet courtyard containing neighbours really ups the odds.
But anything is possible with enough money and effort.

Yeah, which is why I’m prepared to have a larger mortgage than first planned.

I find electronic drums much more conducive to rehearsal than the real thing

I wish I could say the same. I wouldn’t need to go down this route otherwise. For me there’s no comparison to the feel of an acoustic kit. Several years ago I spent over 12 months converting my acoustic kit into an electronic kit to minimise noise. The kit itself is better than any professionally manufactured electronic kit I’ve played on but still it doesn’t excite me like an acoustic set

My biggest advice if maximum isolation is a priority is definitely build the outer leaf from dense concrete blocks, 9" sand filled ones if you can. If possible, build both the inner and outer leaves with these blocks and as big an insulated air gap between them as you can (within reason). Make sure the two leaves do not touch. You'll need to do something similar for the roof/inner ceiling.... block and beam is a good option here. If you really want to maximise isolation then build both leaves on independent concrete slabs, a main slab for the inner and a perimeter slab for the outer. That is really about as good as anyone can achieve in terms of isolation save a concrete bunker buried underground.

Usually in a recording studio It is nice to choose dimensions that are not the same or multiples of each other, with as much height and room volume as you can. It is not as critical if this is just a rehearsal space, but since it's a ground up build you may as well do all you can to make it sound its best.

Paul

In regards to the block and beam option for the roof, given that my house design is double storey I will have a bedroom directly above the rehearsal room so I’m wondering if the block and beam is adequate for not only the roof but also as a floor?

NGDrummer wrote:In regards to the block and beam option for the roof, given that my house design is double storey I will have a bedroom directly above the rehearsal room so I’m wondering if the block and beam is adequate for not only the roof but also as a floor?

Yes, absolutely. They not only build houses like this in certain parts of the world but also quite often multi storey car parks etc as well.

I would highly recommend you get your structural engineer involved though of course.

Paul