John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

OK, I am thinking of investing in some tools to use when I am constructing my studio and want to make sure I buy the right thing. I want to get a saw to cut the lumber for the floors, walls. ceilings and to use for the finishing details like the wood trim and slot walls. What do I need to get: a radial arm saw, table saw or a compound miter saw?

I would go with the compound miter saw, as cutting studs or long stuff to length on a table saw are a chore, but not impossible. Radial arms work too, and are a compromise somewhat as squaring them can be a chore sometimes, although you could cut wide stuff. Even then, some compound miter saws will cut up to 16" wide, but these are usually the high end models and are fairly expensive. If it were up to me, I love tablesaws because I build lots of sheetgoods stuff. But for general purpse, and if I only had ONE choice for construction, it would be the miter saw, as you can put them on a portable stand with outriggers for supporting long material, which is a plus on projects like this.
Although, IF you are building things with WOOD sheet goods, such as soffit enclosures, that require precision(not that you can't do it with a good skill saw) a small contractors 8"-10" table saw are REAL handy on projects such as this. Ripping long straight cuts, such as angled corner studs become much easier, although if need be, you can always clamp a wood fence to the material and skill saw it.
fitZ

Carl, Fitz makes some excellent points; a compound miter saw, in order to cut very wide material, needs to be a SLIDE compound miter - these are available from DeWalt, Makita, and a few other manufacturers, but a 12" version will run you at least $600 new.

To my knowledge, there is no compound miter saw at ANY price that will let you rip even a 2x4, much less a 4x8 sheet of plywood - but for most of the cuts you would do in building a studio, the compound will do a good job.

As to "skil" saws, in the right hands they can do nearly as precision work as a table saw for normal cuts; Fitz mentioned one of the main tricks to accomplishing this. For narrower cuts that still need precision, I have a few cam-action "clamps" that can also be used as an edge guide; these speed things up for doing repetitive "guided" cuts with a skil saw, but are not cheap; seems like I paid around $25 or so for each one, depending on length. I have 2 that span just over 4 feet, and two 3 footers. These have come in handy for a LOT of things, glad I bought 'em -

http://woodbutcher.net/images/normstools/tru-grip.htm

In the pic, that wide black thing in the middle is the rear cleat - you squeeze the wide parts to release and re-position the cleat, the opposing cleat is on a lever-actuated cam; lift the lever, slide the rear cleat up til it's snug, then flip down the lever. There are 2 or 3 "stops" in the cam position for differing degrees of tightness. Works really well and quick, either as a clamp or as a straight-edge guide for a saw or router (even for a straight cut with a jig saw, if you don't push it too hard)

As to skil saws; if you're pretty strong, and want the best accuracy for cuts, get the REAL worm-drive skil saw - it's heavy, which is both a plus and a minus - the plus is, it doesn't wander when you go through grain with the blade; the minus; this sucker is HEAVY, and at the end of the day you'll know you used it. Cost is around $140 if I remember correctly.

For that reason, I recently bought a Porter Cable "sidewinder" type framing saw, with the blade on the left - it's magnesium and carbon fiber, weighs a little over HALF what the Skil weighs, and is great for quick cuts without wearing you out; however, without a FIRM grip it WILL wander when you hit varying density grain structure in dimensional lumber; because of this, for precision I don't recommend it. Cost of this saw was right at $100 @ Home Depot last year.

IF you need to do much demolition first, a good recip saw will come in very handy; just don't cut through any power wiring, it's very exciting but not good for weak hearts - for this type saw, I would ONLY recommend a fully counterbalanced version; I have the Milwaukee SUPER Sawzall, and it is WELL worth the extra $$ over their standard model or any other I've seen. Has more power, longer stroke, and NO VIBRATION so you can actuall cut where you WANTED to, instead of where the damn saw JUMPED to...

If you're "cutting in" electrical boxes or removing just one layer of flooring, another handy tool is the "Roto-zip" - basically a miniature router with special bits that work as a depth-controlled saw - you can get bits for wood, drywall, ceramic tile, etc - this thing makes a serious mess when cutting drywall, so makes an even stronger case for a good shop vac. The good thing; you can cut out sections of drywall without worring where your power (or plumbing) is running, because you can set the bit depth to exactly the thickness of the material you're removing. You can also get much closer to corners/walls than anything else but the Sawzall.

I could go on all day on tools, but this along with Fitz' help should give you an idea of what you need... Steve

Awesome guys, thanks so much. Good tip on the Roto-Zip too. I plan to get a nice compound miter saw, but just to make sure, what you would recommed for doing clean trim work?

That term could mean different things to different people, could you be more specific? Are you referring to mitering mouldings, or just doing accurate angle cuts on framing for complex studio walls - maybe cutting thin paneling without breakouts and splinters, ??

Whatever saw you use, a carbide blade with lots of teeth will improve your cuts a lot... Steve

Trim for walls, chair rails, moulding, surrounds for windows and doors, floorboards, etc. Clean cut edged finishing work not for framing and soffit/trap boxes.

Largest # of teeth you can find for the size blade; at least 80 tooth for 10", 100 teeth for 12" - finer is better. Slow feed always; with any circular saw you get a smoother cut on the side where the teeth ENTER the material.

So for mouldings, you would put the good side UP whether using a radial or miter or table saw... Steve

or that reason, I recently bought a Porter Cable "sidewinder" type framing saw, with the blade on the left - it's magnesium and carbon fiber, weighs a little over HALF what the Skil weighs, and is great for quick cuts without wearing you out; however, without a FIRM grip it WILL wander when you hit varying density grain structure in dimensional lumber; because of this, for precision I don't recommend it. Cost of this saw was right at $100 @ Home Depot last year.

Hey Steve, I have one and absolutly LOVE it. This is why. First off, the blade is on the left end, with the table GUIDE(that flange parallel to the blade and adjacent about an inch to the side)fits PERFECTLY against the long perpendicular edge of one of those triangular shaped metal squares that ALSO have a flange that squares it to the edge of say a 2x4. Just mark where your cut is supposed to be(offset the mark for the distance between the blade and flange), run the square up to the mark, bring the table flange up to the square and cut... and voila! a perfect square end every time with no set up, or layout of a square line or nothin....just slam bam thank you mam works great and saves lots of time. I use a 40 tooth for this little 6" blade too. Cuts nice. I even cut the first cuts out of a sheet of 3/4" OAK veneered panels for my last project with this saw and they came out fairly decent, although I recut them to size on my table saw. If you want really good ZERO tear out on veneered panels, especially using a skill saw, use masking tape on the FRONT and BACK over your cut line. I do that even with a 120 tooth industrial quality 10" ply blade when I have projects that have ZERO defect tolerance Thats cause I have ZERO tolerance for customer rejection......hahahahaha!!

Here is another trick guide that a woodworker friend turned me on to a few years ago. When you crosscut large panels, even on a table saw, unless you have a SLIDING PANEL accessory to the table saw, use of the fence for cuts that are across the panel will NOT come out PERFECTLY square to the long edge. Even on table saws whose fence has been tweaked for ZERO rear blade clearance. The reason is FACTORY EDGES are NOT square. Sometimes, but not always. So, most cabinet makers ALWAYS square their FULL panels first, before further cutting, as nothing is worse for cabinetmaking than out of square cuts. I usually start my first squaring cut towards the middle of the panel and work outward in smaller pieces as my table saw fence extention is only 38". Once I make this cut, all other cuts become square. This is how I do it.
I made a JIG. I actually have 4 of these for different tools like routers, PLUNGE routers, skill saws. It works great. It is simply a 3" wide X 54"
long piece of 3/4" hardwood that I run the edge through a jointer for perfect straightness. This edge is what the same flange of the Porter Cable saw we talked about, runs against. However, this is NOT just a board clamped to the panel. Next, I cut an 8" wide piece of DOUBLE TEMPERED masonite the same length. Then predrill and countersink holes at offsets 3" oc to fasten to the UNDERSIDE of this hardwood guide, with one edge flush with it. Once fastened with short screws, the jig ends up with a 5" wide masonite flange on the bottom along one edge, with the hardwood facing up. This flange is what the saw or router RIDES ON!! To make the jig work, you now take the tool(saw or router) and place it on this flange, with either the skill saw table guide or router base against the hardwood FENCE(edge)
and CUT the masonite the length of the jig. Now you have a guide that you can place the edge of the masonite, right ON your cut line, without haveing to figure out or offset for the distance from the fence(jig) to the blade or bit EVERY TIME. Does that make sense? Now you have the option of either fastening a permenant right angle brace, or simply clamp it to the panel using a framing square to square the jig. Sometimes, if I have progressive crosscuts the length of the panel, I will simply square the end of the panel about 1/8" back, and then run my cuts on the table saw from there.
BTW, my favorite tool in the shop is a router. I can do just about anything except cut stuff over 3" thick with it. Even then, it would only take two passes with a long enough bit, and enough horse power. Curves, straight cuts, elipses, pattern or jig cuts, ........nothing is impossible. Ha, well maybe a jigsaw puzzle Well, enough woodworking stuff here. Later gents..
fitZ

"one of those triangular shaped metal squares that ALSO have a flange that squares it to the edge of say a 2x4" - got one, had it for years; even my cold, dead fingers won't let go of THAT one...

Great idea on the double masonite thing; makes a lot of sense.

Hmmmm, wonder if "tools" and "fools" rhyme intentionally...

Hmmmm, wonder if "tools" and "fools" rhyme intentionally...

No doubt. Like....." a fool and his tool are soon parted"...... AS IN....
"raised panel bits in a handheld router"...know what I mean Steve?
fitZ

I've spent the weekend considering tools. Limiting my post to Home Depot stuff to make it internationallyapplicable I considered the following (prices in Canadian dollars):

Crosscut Miter Saws:
a) Dewalt DW708 $899 + Dewalt 723 stand
b) Ridgid MS1290LZ $749 + Ridgid AC9940 MSUV stand $299
c) Hitachi C10FSH $884

Biscuit Jointers
1) Ryobi JM81K $139
2) Dewalt DW682K $248
3) Porter Cable 557 $279
4) Freud JS100 $165

Based on internet reviews, I ended up deciding on the Ridgid MS1290LZ $749 + Ridgid AC9940 MSUV stand $299 and Dewalt DW682K $248. Second place Hitachi C10FSH $884, Porter Cable 557 $279.
But I haven't bought anything yet.

Suggestion...if you have some pawn shops locally, go look there first for some power tools. You might be surprised what you find. No need to spend alot of money unless you plan on using them on a daily basis for biz. Check you classifieds too. Save yourself a grand or so and put it in the studio or gear...



Aaron