Starting from scratch,newbie help needed!

Ben from Canberra · Post by **Ben from Canberra** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:11 pm

First off, let me just say that never has a google search paid off more than when I entered the following: "studio construction" site:au!

Now, I have my own house. There's currently a study at the back corner of the house which I would like to extend into the backyard in the hope of turning it into a small practice studio (with the focus being keeping inside noises in, away from neighbors). I'll need room for a drum kit, and a few guitars and amps, and perhaps a couch!

I have no handyman genes that I'm aware of and thus require some (lots of) assistance in getting this process going. I have reasonable expectations of the timeframe involved, and am hoping to have the project finished by June - August 2004.

Basically the study as it currently stands is about 2.5m x 4m, the aim is somehow to extend the room beyond it's external wall so the 2.5m becomes around 7.5m - 8m.

I don't know if it's easier/more sensible/whatever to knock out the external wall and extend the study, or to build a standalone construction close to the external wall and connect the two rooms with a double door. If that makes sense.

Attached is a very rough, out of scale map of my house, with the study and proposed studio at bottom left.

If anyone can give me any hints as to where to start, who to contact, what to do, even with the little info I've provided here, I'd be most grateful. Indeed if there's a company that specialises in this sort of thing, I'd like to know!

I'm going to document the whole process on my website once things get started to keep all informed.

Thanks a bunch!

Post by **John Sayers** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:22 pm

Hi Ben - welcome to the site.
There's a a lot of info needed here, like - what construction is your house?? I assume it's a brick veneer??

What ever it is you'll have to do a full house extension, extending the foundations, roofing etc. You really need an architect to do this for you so you can submit it to council etc.

You should also go to my site http://johnlsayers.com and access the recording manual at the SAE site which covers acoustics etc. Also go to the Studios Under Construction site and check out what others have built.

cheers
john

Ben from Canberra · Post by **Ben from Canberra** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:43 pm

Wow, fast relpy!

Thanks John.

Yep, as I said, I have very little knowledge going into this, so it's a bit scary! I suppose what I need to find is some sort of architect/consultant that may have done this sort of thing before. I'm not by no means treating this as a do it yourself project. I guess I'm just after some info on how to get the process started.

I've arranged for a builder friend to come over on the weekend and help me put into words what I actually want to do. Hopefully he can give me some indication of whether it's possible too!

FYI, it is a brick veneer house.

Thanks for your help, it's going to be an interesting ride...

Post by **John Sayers** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:52 pm

Cool - if it's a brick veneer then it'll have a truss roof that will need to be extended. Ask you builder about a scissor truss to give you an angled ceiling which will help acoustically.

cheers
john

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 6:36 pm

Also, for your own sanity you should have this builder, ESPECIALLY if he's not done studio construction before, ALSO check out John's links and ask questions - we've had 'way too many people hire non-acoustic trained "handymen" to do things that really should get torn out so the RIGHT stuff can be built.

Especially in your case where you're wanting to use acoustic drums, there are right and wrong ways to build for sound proofing - and, given a free rein, most builders that aren't experienced with sound will nearly ALWAYS choose the WRONG way... Steve

Ben from Canberra · Post by **Ben from Canberra** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:44 am

Okay, some major changes to my goals now...

1. No longer a studio, now a soundproof 'Rumpus Room' where I can practise my drumming and guitar(ing) without disturbing the neighbors.

2. Changed the location to the bottom end of the property next to the loungeroom.

Have a look at the plans page: http://benhughes.info/studioproject

So, in effect I don't really care about what the sound inside the room is like, only that the sound needs to stay IN THE ROOM!

Given that the new building will be built next to the loungeroom, what do I need to consider to make sure people in the loungeroom watching a DVD don't hear noise from the rumpus room?

Also, as the building is yet to be built, it's probably a good time to ask if there are any specific foundation types that will provide better soundproofing?

I'm happy to fork out for decent insulation/soundproofing materials, as I'm scrapping the recording component of the project has freed up plenty of moolah!

Any suggestion appreciated.

EDIT: I'm also looking at using a material called SonicPly on the interior walls - http://www.misterplywood.com.au (click through to Exclusive Products). Has anyone used or heard of this stuff before?

Post by **John Sayers** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 10:37 am

Well Ben - firstly build a room within a room construction. i.e float a new room within your addition. I assume you will continue with the same brick as the rest of the house and continue the truss roofing. To stop the parallel floor ceiling consider using scissor trusses so you start with an angled ceiling. Then you must treat the inner room acoustically so your drums sound OK

BTW - aren't you going to have a door (preferably double door) between the lounge and rumpus room??

cheers
john

Ben from Canberra · Post by **Ben from Canberra** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:49 am

Thanks, John.

The building will not extend the existing roof (too expensive). The new room's floor level will be 1.5 - 2 feet lower than that of the lounge, so I won't be building the new room as high as the lounge (which has quite high ceilings).

I'm not sure why there is no door between the lounge and the rumpus - perhaps I was thinking that it would reduce the soundproofing between the 2 rooms? Also, the diagrams don't show that there is decking between the sliding door of the lounge and the entry to the rumpus room.

The new building will have an angled ceiling, so I guess that's a good thing to begin with. I'm not sure about the 'room within a room' idea though - is this absolutely necessary for just soundproofing, and will it be much more expensive? Remembering that I'm not overly concerned with the sound inside the room.

I might actually get some photos of the site so you can see what I mean, as building speak is not my 1st language...

Stay tuned, and thanks again.

EDIT: added pic of rough proposal...

Ben from Canberra · Post by **Ben from Canberra** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:28 am

Another thing...

I have a certain amount of flexibility as far as the height of the new room is concerned. Given that the room will be about 4m wide, how high should the low and high sides of the angled ceiling be?

I guess the low side should be at least my height (6'3")...?

It's getting difficult to explain myself here, but when you enter the new room, you'll actually step down a couple of feet from the floor level of the loungeroom.

I'll get my boss's digital cam on Friday and get some pics for you.

Thanks again John and Knightfly for your help. Let me know if you have an Amazon.com wishlist - as I feel like I'm stretching the bounds of 'free advice'!

Post by **John Sayers** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:46 am

Cool Ben - I'm getting a picture of where you are going. The low side of the ceiling will have to be at least 7 ft (2.1m) simply to meet council specs.

BTW - Ben do you know a Tony Hughes who moved to OZ from NZ in the late 50s??

cheers
john

Ben from Canberra · Post by **Ben from Canberra** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:22 am

Cheers John,

Sorry, I don't know any Tony Hughes!

So lets say the low side was 8', then given the width of the room is 13' what would the high side be (is there a formula I can use to get the best result)?

Also I think I need some pointers as to the actual surface of the ceiling...?

Post by **John Sayers** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:43 am

Your other wall will need to be around 10' 6" if your other wall is 8 ft. If you make the other wall 7' the wall should be around 9' 6"

cheers
john

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:37 am

Ben, if you're willing to go outside thru the slider and enter the practice room like your earlier picture, you would get better isolation from the lounge. Also, if you use a common wall as you've shown you will reduce the effectiveness of sound proofing considerably. It's entirely too easy to build flanking paths thru the solid connections in attached buildings, and these will defeat a good portion of your sound proofing attempts. Especially at the low drum frequencies.

If you really don't want anyone in the lounge to be distracted by your "thrashing of the skins", I'd go for a completely free-standing building that you enter thru the outside door. That, and storm door/window construction (double glass) will go a long way toward keeping "harmony" in your drumming... Steve

Ben from Canberra · Post by **Ben from Canberra** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 2:00 pm

Okay, getting there I think...steep learning curve!

I'm going to talk to a draftperson and a builder next week, so I need this clear in my head.

What I'll be asking for is...

- A standalone brick structure built close to, but not attached to the external loungeroom wall.
- Entry will be via external double door.
- Windows to be double-glass
- Ceiling to be angled ( eg 10'6" sloping down to 8' )

Other things I probably should try to understand...

- What materials/specs to consider for the flooring...?
- What materials/specs to consider for the walls
- What materials/specs to consider for roof/ceiling

You guys must love answering these questions....!

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:13 am

Ben, you've got the right idea mostly. If your budget allows, and your room really will be dedicated to the particular purpose, you would get better isolation (lounge, neighbors) by doing as John suggested early on and building a full room-in-room construction. Get back to me if you want more info on this.

Another improvement to standard Aussie walls (brick, furred out wallboard) is to just increase the air gap and double/triple the inner wallboard.

I couldn't find much info on Mr. Plywood's Sonic Ply, but came across another ridiculous "deal" on acoustic ply - it's two layers of 5/8" ply separated by a 1/4" layer of acoustic snake oil stuff, and two layers of 1/16" other type snake oil stuff, STC rating of 30-something by itself - priced at $180 per 4'x8' sheet, in USD (what a deal)

I guess if you had more money than time, something like that might be OK - it kind of follows the adage "Good, Fast, Cheap - pick any TWO - you can NEVER have all THREE" -

- What materials/specs to consider for the flooring...?
- What materials/specs to consider for the walls
- What materials/specs to consider for roof/ceiling

Flooring - concrete is good, heavy wood floated on rubber over concrete is better, concrete floated over concrete is best.

Walls - see several paragraphs above - if floating walls on a floated floor, multi-layer gypsum board is good, adding rockwool or Knauf board helps, masonry + stood off gypsum is best.

Ceilings - double layer, double leaf gyp board is good, adding Resilient Channel helps several dB, deeper air gap is better, isolated from walls with neoprene helps too.

If you can, a rough idea of budget and real world isolation needs would help eliminate some of the methods... Steve