John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi there,

Like stated earlier, I'm planning on reorganising my studio and also going into new directions. The biggest problem I have is space. The studio must be in my bedroom and there is no other place in the house I can move to. My parent never liked me having a studio so they would like to see a room which looks not so busy as it is at the moment...

I made a drawing in visio with everything scaled. I want to make my own studio furniture since I can customize it then and I can make it smaller then it is. Now I have a very big desk (80x120 or so ) which takes up so much space aswell as my racks etc.

My music is usually made of multitrackings and jamming. So I need a sort of live situation. I have that now but its very small here for me to work properly and also it just looks so busy !

But ok I'll try if my visio drawing (converted to gif) is allowed here on the board and I'll explain...

So here I go.

My bedroom is 517 cm wide and 271 cm in length. Of course there is a bed (2m by 90 cm) and a closet for my clothes (the purple square).

The black thing is a place where pipes and wires are so that part cannot be used (its shielded in a square so I cannot even see them).

I'm saving my money now for an Imac G5 and that will be my new workstation so I need a smaller desk which I'l make myself. Just to put my Imac on aswell as my controller for cubase and motu DP. Next to that I want a smaller rack with the height of my desk where I can put in patchbays, maybe a 4 track taperecorder, adat interface maybe, an audio firewire interface (think presonus) and maybe some drawers to put some stuff into.
I also want to put my G3 laptop onto of it for having internet when I'm working in cubase or so or transferring files etc etc.

Then next to that the 2 blue rectangles are a Roland JX1 synth (top) and an Alesis quadrasynth (bottom, slightly ligher coloured) with the orange thing beeing my rack case for my samplers, modules, effects, mixers etc etc. In front of me my Ensoniq VFX (bottom) and N5ex on top of it. (the rose/light red coloured rectangles)
Then also a special chair that is higher.

But now the tricky stuff which I;m more concerned about:

I now have a pair of KRK RP5's for stereo monitoring but I want to do mixing in 5.1 surround and doing more with DVD-A etc. So I want to buy a 5.1 set for mixing aswell (think the Maudio LX4 is a nice set to start with). Just for fun btw. I'm not expecting the quality of real world studios.
But ok then I have 2 sets of monitoring. I placed the surround speakers in the field around my working place (note that the grey circle is just for measuring purposes. There is no real circle of course) but now I'm stuck with my RP5 monitoring which is stereo. I now placed them right next to the L and R of the 5.1 monitoring but then I don't have a good triangle anymore I think. Does anyone have a good idea where to place the krks?

(btw yes I know that my LR speaker is right in a place where the door opens so if I'm not using that one I move the speaker to a place where it cannot be hit by a door)

Any help and also comments are appreciated and welcome !

Thanks

Before we get into anything else, I've placed copies of an announcement originally from the Construction forum, into ALL forums - please read and comply

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4062

In your case, two GLARING points would be sizing of pix (you can edit your post and replace oversize ones) and Location (edit your profile) -

The link explains the necessity for this - thanks... Steve

knightfly wrote:Before we get into anything else, I've placed copies of an announcement originally from the Construction forum, into ALL forums - please read and comply

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4062

In your case, two GLARING points would be sizing of pix (you can edit your post and replace oversize ones) and Location (edit your profile) -

The link explains the necessity for this - thanks... Steve

I'll edit my picture... Hang on

Are you a "one-man show", or will you have others involved with production? If you do it all yourself, you might want to consider a "jet cockpit" approach, where you use just ONE chair centered among speakers, keyboards, etc - I've done this in a couple of rooms and it works pretty well for a single person "songwriting" approach - desk as you have it, rack to one side, guitar and bass on stands to the other side, then the two surround speakers, and the keyboard stack directly behind your head while you're at the mix position.

If you have a set of electronic drums, you might even be able to squeeze those into the circle with some careful planning. Don't forget you need a narrow path for you to enter the "cockpit".

My software allows me to resize the SMPTE time window to any size, so when recording parts on instruments that aren't facing the computer screen, I bring up a LARGE time code window and place a mirror where I can see the timecode in it. Crude, but it works.

OOPS - just re-read your part about jamming...

You might try redrawing your setup using the right half of the room - put your speakers so you're aligned with the LONG axis of the room, it should improve the sound.

Stereo speakers don't HAVE to be exactly at 60 degrees, some people have them clear out to 90 degrees. This makes stereo imaging more tricky though. I would set up your 5.1 system exact, then place your stereo speakers just to the outside of your L and R front surrounds - aim the stereo speakers at a point just behind your head, don't put ANY of your speakers so that their woofers are at a height that's exactly HALF of the room height (about 150mm away from center is OK)

When you add other people to a small room, it gets crowded; not a lot you can do about that, but I'd still try setting the speakers up firing the long way... Steve

I have the cockpit approach at the moment but thats the problem here. It is just so much things in so less space. It's good for me that I'm not claustrophobic. I have a session guitarist and session vocalists yes so we usually jam togheter. Timecode is never a problem here. I don;t use it, he also doesnt. We both have very good timing and a small metronome in our own heads that ticks along but yes I also have the ability to work with a dual monitor setup and even 3 different monitors so thats not a problem.

I concidered the length also since thats much better for the sound but then I have some problems with my bed and closet I think... As far as I could see this was the most flexible solution. Not the best I think sonically but as far as space is concerned it is.

Thanks for the info about the surround monitor placement. This is info I really can use !

I'm going to see what I can do with the room. Thanks !

p.s.: if someone has some tips about acoustics etc I'll be glad to hear !
For this I assume people need information.
Well the room is 517 cm wide and 271 cm deep. The height of my room is 240cm.

The floor is concrete I believe and the walls are chalkstone blocks with drywall I think. The wall with the windows is drywall with a sort of woodenframe work with isolation, outer frame, some stuff I don;t know, another frame with plastic clickpanels on the outside. The windows have double glass (dunno how it is called in englisch but it is 2 glassplates with a vacuum in between them I believe)

There is carpet on the floor and papersheets (dunno what it is called. We say behang in holland LOL) on the walls. Small wooden click panels on the ceiling.
If I clap my hands then there is a small echo but just little feedback. I can't put absorbers and stuff everywhere since my parents don't allow me to do so. Thats the whole problem If they did then I had no problems and even had a separate room as studio...

But ok I'll give it a new try ! I'll let you know.

It's not my place to criticize, but I do not understand any parent that doesn't want his children to learn and follow their goals - I expected this of both my children, and both are happily doing exactly what they want in life and making good money at it.

At any rate, you're stuck with what you're stuck with; maybe you could temporarily use the blankets, pillows and even the mattress from your bed to help tame the flutter while recording any live parts? What you want to do is to break up the parallel walls as much as possible, maybe even with bookshelves or something. Your situation isn't the easiest in the world, as that room is quite narrow already.

I don't know of any way a small room with that much stuff in it could help but look "busy" -

The under desk rack will help clean things up - be sure to keep any "wall wart" type transformers as far away from your audio wiring as possible, those things are MAJOR HUM sources.

Chair - I've used a "drafting chair" with good success for guitar; it has a foot rest ring that's adjustable, so you can get your leg at the right angle to keep the guitar from wanting to slide off while playing. Found the chair at an office supply store, it cost about USD$100 and is not squeaky like some inexpensive chairs, so I can use it for acoustic as well.

Another thing; if you find yourself in need of more support than you get locally, feel free to drop in whether you have specific technical questions or not; that's part of what the "wombat hole" is for, if you want to post something and it doesn't seem to belong anywhere else.

On the 5.1 stuff, have you found this?

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3336

Best of luck... Steve

knightfly wrote:It's not my place to criticize, but I do not understand any parent that doesn't want his children to learn and follow their goals - I expected this of both my children, and both are happily doing exactly what they want in life and making good money at it.

At any rate, you're stuck with what you're stuck with; maybe you could temporarily use the blankets, pillows and even the mattress from your bed to help tame the flutter while recording any live parts? What you want to do is to break up the parallel walls as much as possible, maybe even with bookshelves or something. Your situation isn't the easiest in the world, as that room is quite narrow already.

I don't know of any way a small room with that much stuff in it could help but look "busy" -

The under desk rack will help clean things up - be sure to keep any "wall wart" type transformers as far away from your audio wiring as possible, those things are MAJOR HUM sources.

Chair - I've used a "drafting chair" with good success for guitar; it has a foot rest ring that's adjustable, so you can get your leg at the right angle to keep the guitar from wanting to slide off while playing. Found the chair at an office supply store, it cost about USD$100 and is not squeaky like some inexpensive chairs, so I can use it for acoustic as well.

Another thing; if you find yourself in need of more support than you get locally, feel free to drop in whether you have specific technical questions or not; that's part of what the "wombat hole" is for, if you want to post something and it doesn't seem to belong anywhere else.

On the 5.1 stuff, have you found this?

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3336

Best of luck... Steve

Thank you for the reply steve! I found the document yes. In fact it is because of that document I found this forum. My real questions are what I can do to make my room sound as best as possible and also how to place my stereo monitoring. I already have a good chair for my keyboards and I do not play guitar (well few notes but don't own one) so I don't need any chair or so for that (my session guitarist prefers standing)

My parents don't support me in music since I never learned for it. I dropped music school and teached everything myself. But I wonder if my parents even Know if I make my own stuff when I'm thinking of it now. They usually hear me playing along with records (usually genesis and marillion but do that to keep myself in musical form) and think it is all noise here... It doesn't bother me, it's their right and I don't blame them. They want me getting into serious stuff since music doesn't pay a living (doing ICT now). But thats ok here since if I finish this school I'll go do multimedia where I still can do music So I'm one step beyond them

Anyways if there are any suggestions about the room and the acoustics then I'm open for it
And thanks for the tips I already had. I recorded some things like shakers and vocals with pillows, badtowels, sheets, blankets etc yes which helps deaden the sound good (although I also recorded in the bathroom )

Is this the "ICT" you mean?

http://www.ict.org/

or something else?

BTW, I just finished a safety training video, 40 billable hours, $4,000 - shot all footage, edited, wrote script, did voice-over, composed/recorded background music, delivered on VHS and DVD, so if you get into the right areas of Multimedia it definitely CAN pay.

Also, I started piano at age 5, dropped out at age 10,(wanted to play MY music, not someone else's), am 98% self-taught and play keys, drums, bass, guitar, brass, and a bit of Cello - so if it's your passion, don't give it up. I've never been sorry except when I DIDN'T follow my heart... Steve

BTW, I just finished a safety training video, 40 billable hours, $4,000 - shot all footage, edited, wrote script, did voice-over, composed/recorded background music, delivered on VHS and DVD, so if you get into the right areas of Multimedia it definitely CAN pay.

Congratulations!

Andre

Thanks Andre; from all indications, it's barely the tip of the iceberg (knocking on wood, suddenly realizing that head is composed mainly of granite, wondering which woods would be softer and less painful to knock on )

congrats too knightflight. And yes that is the ICT I mean. Information Communication Technology. WHere I only learn windows but doing mac os X and linux here @ home.

IF you get a job in music and multimedia, it can pay a good living but here in Holland, the market is VERY small and there are so many people that have the qualification... Thats the problem.

Yes, it's probably not all that different here in the US either; I think that the main reason I'm finding the market friendly is the COMBINATION of talents and abilities I've picked up over 40+ years of earning a living; I've done everything from pro audio/video design (entire facilities, multi-thousand $) to playing in bands, live sound, house remodeling, teaching electronics, building race cars, heavy equipment operations, engineering tech, photography, industrial automation and control, tech writer/editor, composer....

This particular type of training video makes use of more of my experience than almost any other job I've done, which severely limits the competition in some ways - good for me, not so good for someone just starting out.

So, looking at it that way I guess your folks are making more sense that it appears at first glance; still, I hope you continue to follow your dreams as much as humanly possible - and if you "fall into something" as right for you as I did, hopefully you'll be prepared to grab it and hang on... Steve

the market is VERY small and there are so many people that have the qualification...

Same problem here in Singapore with a population of slightly over 3 million and a measly land area of 645 sq km. How's that for a 'space problem'? lol