Layout ideas for a 23' x 40' room?

[ncasares]

Greetings!

First off, let me say that this is a fantastic resource. To the folks that are donating their time and knowledge to this forum, THANK YOU!

I apologize if this first post runs a bit long, but in the interest of not wasting anyone’s time I want to be thorough. I REALLY appreciate any input : )

About the Room
I’m working with a room that measures 23’ 6” x 40’ 10”. This room is on the second floor of an addition to my home and is somewhat finished. The basic details of the room are:

- Drywall construction on exterior walls.
- Carpet flooring
- Suspended tile ceiling
- Shared HVAC with second room (more on this in a minute)

These are basics of the room that I’m pretty much locked into at this point.

I have taken some basic measurements of the room and there doesn't seem to be any huge problem areas in the low end. There are some bumps and troughs as would be expected, but nothing major (then again, I'm not an acoustician, so I could be very wrong here).

The only treatment I have thus far are 8 Auralex T-fusor panels (they were donated) that could be used in the drop ceiling above the mix position?

I have been looking at Ethan Winer's broadband trap plans as a viable approach to treating the room. However, if there are better alternatives, then by all means, LAY 'EM ON ME : )

Goals For the Room
This will be a control/writing room that I would eventually like to expand for recording. I am envisioning 3 phases of construction. I would like the room to maintain a comfortable ‘cozy’ vibe. I would also like the room to allow for future 5.1 capability. Isolation may be an issue during Phases 2 and 3, but for now it’s not a problem (my neighbors are at least an acre away).

Phase 1
Treat the room to provide a reliable mixing environment. My budget for this phase is $1000 or less (I’m on student income).
Phase 2
Add a smaller overdub room within the main mix room with line of sight to the mix position. My budget for this phase is undetermined (I’m looking for input).
Phase 3
Adapt the second room for recording capabilities by addressing isolation issues and acoustic treatment. HVAC is shared with control/writing room, so this may be a problem. Line of sight is a problem, but there’s probably not much I can do about it except go with a video feed. My budget is undetermined.

Initial questions

- What is the best placement for acoustic treatment?
- I would like to cover the windows with curtains (mostly for aesthetic reasons). Will this cause any problems?
- Given the suspended ceiling, is it realistic to even consider creating an overdub room within the control/mix room?
- If this is feasible, how can I construct walls that work within the limitations of the carpet flooring and suspended ceiling?
I apologize that my drawing is not to scale. I am still working with the drawing program and hope to figure that out soon (I’m using OmniGraffle).

Thanks in advance for any and all input : ) Happy recording!

Room drawing

Room photos

[sharward]

Welcome to the forum! Nice initial post. You are officially exempted from newbie flames!

(In all seriousness, flames are never welcome here, even if deserved!)

Isolation may be an issue during Phases 2 and 3, but for now it’s not a problem (my neighbors are at least an acre away).

My first thought is, granted, you're not terribly concerned about isolation at this phase... But I'm wondering if you can/should take future isolation needs into consideration now, because as you've undoubtedly learned here already, adding soundproofing after a room is already built out is extremely difficult, costly, and often wasteful in the sense that you have to destroy a lot of perfectly good stuff in order to install new stuff and then redo the destroyed stuff.

That's a beautiful room you have to work with -- but I'm concerned about the windows and ceiling, pretty much due to my thoughts stated above.

Others here may have other thoughts and will probably contribute them... That's my two cents at this point!

[ncasares]

Hi there! Thanks for the input.

I agree that isolation will be an issue down the road. I think I have to set isolation as a phase 2 priority right now due to my limited budget.

My first and foremost concern is creating a mix space that will work acoustically. I don't see tracking happening in here for at least 6-12 months, so I'll have some time to think(worry?) about the isolation issues. I'm hoping to get some input on the more involved building phases (if it's even worth pursuing).

Cheers!

[John Sayers]

ncasares - that's a big room you have - people here have built whole studios with control room, live room and iso booths in that kind of space.

Here's a solution I could offer for a way of getting a mix space. It involves building yourself a set of freestanding panels that isolate you within the big room. the front panels give you a soffit mount speaker system with front acoustics built in, the rear panels give you a barrier between you and the large space

cheers
john

[ncasares]

Thanks for replying John!

That seems like a good option given my limited budget right now. Can you point me to some construction details for those guys? Would the speaker be attached to the baffle or sit on a stand behind it?

Do the panels run from floor to ceiling? If I take 5.1 out the equation for now, how does that change things?

If you were only working in stereo how would you orient the mix position?

Cheers!

[kendale]

Here's a few wall unit plans to check out:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm

There's also a wealth of info here:

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

[ncasares]

The ceilings in this room are 92". They're low due to the suspended ceiling.

Here's my question: I'm considering cutting the room in half, but to benefit from any isolation in the CR I'm pretty sure I'll need something more than the suspended ceiling.

It's not really feasible at this point to take out the suspended ceiling (grrr). Could I hang an additional sheetrock ceiling or would that make my ceiling height ridiculously low? I figure I would lose at least 3" to 4" which would make the new ceiling only 88" or 89" : (

The dimensions for the CR I'm considering would be 23.6' x 15' (?) x new ceiling height (lower than 92").

Is this even a possibility or should I look elsewhere?

Cheers

[John Sayers]

You are caught between constrution and non contsruction. What I offerd is a way of removing the big room as much as you can, creating your own acoustic environment without the interference of the larger space.

I'd aim along those lines.

cheers
john

[ncasares]

Hi John,

I understand the solution you offered, but I'm now thinking I'd like to have an actual room in my space. I can build the walls you suggested originally, but it doesn't provide any true isolation. If I go that route a large piece of the room will go unused, which is not my desire.

So, I gather from your last repsonse that the lower ceiling is NOT a good idea?

What is the lowest ceiling height that would work in a CR?


Thanks,
Nick

[DreaminDrumBeats]

I think what Johns trying to get at is it's going to take more than 1000 dollars to do what you would like. Buying the material for framing the walls and then add your electric needs ( which you would need an electrician to do it properly) then add your rockwool or 703 (whichever you choose or both) and sheetrock 2 to 3 layers or more for good isolation and well I can say that's roughly 5 to 10000 or more depending on the size of the place right there. To do just a control I'm guestimating here it's goona cost about 2000 or more.

What John suggested is (guestimating here again) 500 to 1000 which is well within you budget right now and when you have more money you can more or likely use those ceiling high freestanding panels as parts of you renewed effort to start making the control room and other rooms.

[DreaminDrumBeats]

I think what Johns trying to get at is it's going to take more than 1000 dollars to do what you would like. Buying the material for framing the walls and then add your electric needs ( which you would need an electrician to do it properly) then add your rockwool or 703 (whichever you choose or both) and sheetrock 2 to 3 layers or more for good isolation and well I can say that's roughly 5 to 10000 or more depending on the size of the place right there. To do just a control I'm guestimating here it's goona cost about 2000 or more.

What John suggested is (guestimating here again) 500 to 1000 which is well within you budget right now and when you have more money you can more or likely use those ceiling high freestanding panels as parts of you renewed effort to start making the control room and other rooms.

Hvae you looked up into the drop ceiling to see whether you could possibly raise the ceiling later down the road?

[ncasares]

Yeah, I realized after I posted that that's probably what John was "hinting" at. : )

If I went with the separate wall I would definitely allocate a larger budget.

I'm looking at 'garage studio 2' as an option for the room. However, I wouldn't (at this point) do a MAM system on the 'live' side since I don't have the budget.

What I would like to do (again, if it's possible) is put up two walls using sliding doors between the two sides of the room and float the control room. Here is where I think ceiling height is an issue. There's a possibility that I could remove the grid on the control room side, but I'd like to explore any other options first.

I'm not going for complete isolation since I will most likely be tracking drums on the other side (not in the picture) of the stairwell. That room has an actual ceiling and can be addressed differently.

What I will be tracking on the CR 'live' side is vocals, horns, guitars, etc.

I don't know if this changes anything, but hopefully I've better explained myself.

In John's scenario with the freestanding panels, do you still get the benefits of a sofit mounted speaker even though the walls wouldn't be sealed? I'm a little confused by this.

Thanks!
Nick

[John Sayers]

Nick - if you are going to build a control room, or studio, you are going to have to break through that dropped ceiling and connect to the ceiling above. You'll probably find you've got another foot or so of height up there.

cheers
john

[ncasares]

Hi John,

Thanks for your patience : )

After reading some more on the board and coming back to your solution I've decided that the panels are the way to go for now.

I have a few questions on those:

1) Do the panels connect to each other and can they literally just live in a section of the room without touching anything else?

2) Is sofit mounting the speakers a necessity for this to work properly?

3) Can the panels be constructed with 2x4 studs?

If there is another thread that deals with this type of design could you point me to it?

Thanks,
Nick