John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

This is my first post to the forum.. been visiting for a while now and got up the courage to post.

I am planning my patching system for my new recording space and was looking at ADC patch panels.

What is the "best" method of connection? Krone, UCP, 3 terminal crimp plugs?

Panel 1: Normalled from my wall panels (XLR-F / Neutrik Combo for headphones, etc.) in the live area and ISO booth to the Mic Ins on my Yamaha 02R96V2.

Panel 2: 1/2 normalled from/to the Channel Inserts (1/4" TRS)

Panel 3: Direct Outs to ADAT Analog In (1/4" TRS)

Panel 4 & 5: To cover Omni Outs (8), AUX Sends, Returns, etc. Some will be normalled, most will be Non-normalled.

Panel 6: Non-Normalled for outboard FX, PREs, etc.

I would like to do some of the wiring myself, but will have someone doing most of the wiring work and want to consider maintenance, mods, etc. down the road.

Thanks and I look forward to any/all replies.

Jon Frost

Greetings Jon & Welcome to the site.

What is the "best" method of connection?

Part of it is a personal preference, but depending on the needs will typically depend on what the setup will be or what you need. Will this be a permanant install? Such as not moving it around or making it a mobile setup. Do you plan on ever changing any of the major equipment setup such as the console or multi-track machines in the near future? (if you'r using ADAT's, I would assume at some point you will want to upgrade to something else such as a Hard Disk recorder or DAW system.)

Panel 1: Normalled from my wall panels (XLR-F / Neutrik Combo for headphones, etc.) in the live area and ISO booth to the Mic Ins on my Yamaha 02R96V2.

How do you intend to set up the headphones in terms of the combo plugs? Are you running an amplified signal or line level? If amplified and going to headphone boxes, you may consider 3 pin male XLR's on the panels. (this way you don't accidently plug in a mic to it).

Panel 2: 1/2 normalled from/to the Channel Inserts (1/4" TRS)

Looks good.

Panel 3: Direct Outs to ADAT Analog In (1/4" TRS)

Normalled?

Panel 4 & 5: To cover Omni Outs (, AUX Sends, Returns, etc. Some will be normalled, most will be Non-normalled.

You can normal the stuff going from aux sends to reverb units, and normalled back to the returns. (or even a pair (5 & 6 for example) to a cue system).

Panel 6: Non-Normalled for outboard FX, PREs, etc.

Looks good.



As far as connections, there are 3 main types that I've seen. They break out to EDAC/Elco connectors, Punch down blocks, or direct solder to the contacts.

For outboard gear (especially since outboard seems to change the most frequently) you may consider the punch down type. You can have pig tails w/ XLR or 1/4" already made up and all you have to do is pull one out and punch in the other. It beats having to resolder everything when you swap out a piece of gear.

Aaron:

"It seemed like a good idea at the time..."

So forget about the Yamaha console and swap that for Control/24 & PT HD2... More money but less patching and better workflow I think. Now all I have to do is re-work my cabling system & patchbay layout. I think I wil spend the big bucks and go with the UDC Punch style since I can set normals how ever I want - channel to channel on each bay!

I had some solder type ADC bays in 1984 or so and what a PITA they were.

Do you have experience with wiring for PT/Control 24, etc.? I am figuring to go with Mogami cable throughout and need to copy the Control 24 Harness layout with some mods for prepped ends rather than connectors (PB connections) and the Speaker harness will need to be custom to reach the 5.1 surround speakers (Yamaha HS80s/HS100SW).

I'm also stymied about whether to go with Apogee I/Os or stick with DDs... I am going to get the Apogee Big Ben Clock though. Do I really have to spend the big bucks for clocking cables?

Basically I want 16ch I/O from the Control 24 and another 8 I/O for outboard PREs and such, where I would have Vocal Mics and such patched to dedicated outboard PREs, Comps, etc. and then patched to the 3rd I/O Box. All connected to an Audio PC - Rack mounted of course, in an ISO Box or similar under my right front speaker location... with proper ventilation of course.

What about mixing to 2 track - connection to/from Alesis Masterlink CD burner?

So many questions...and it's past my bedtime... but then I was up til 3:30am this morning working on my cabling/patch diagrams for the Yamaha console.

Thanks for your assistance... Which studio is yours? Do you have pics? Equipment listing, etc.?

Namaste,

Jon Frost

Aloha Jon,

Which studio is yours? Do you have pics? Equipment listing, etc.?

Does he have pics? http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=839

Happy reading!

Aloha

Hi Jon,

Do you have experience with wiring for PT/Control 24, etc.?

I have not wired one of these, but have been a PT user for years (except the last 3...been under construction).

and the Speaker harness will need to be custom to reach the 5.1 surround speakers (Yamaha HS80s/HS100SW).

Looking at the manual, looks like a DB25 connector for surround outputs. Shouldn't be a problem at all. Are you going to go to the patchbay first and normal to them or just go direct to the monitors/amp?

I forgot this unit only has 16 mic inputs.

Your "external in" is for a 5.1 playback device (eg: DVD).


If you're doing 5.1 mixes, they will all be done internal on the system. If you're doing 2 mix mixes, I believe you can use the Submix output to go to your Masterlink. (double check the manual and routing.)

And the link that Kendale posted, is to my thread with all the pix, etc.

Aaron:

Yes, I looked at every one of your pix... What a nice job! Now I have studio envy and I don't even have my space planned out yet... LOL

It seems like every day brings yet another change to the plan. I have settled on a PT HD3 on PCIe PC. D-Command 24 console, TC System 6000 for Reverb, Aviom 16 headphone mix system and a bunch of outboard pres, comps, etc. and plug-ins for PT. Still working on the wiring plan/patching system, but have settled on the ADC EDAC patch panels. Mogami snakes/wiring throughout.

Now if I could only get my lease signed and $$$ in the bank to finance this whole shebang.

All the best,

Jon

Do yourself a favor...buy a Mac.

Aaron:

I was thinking about that... What do you recommend for HD3?

Jon

I believe the new PT software now supports the intel chips, so it shouldn't be any issue. Load it up w/ some RAM and what ever drives are now supported (sorry I'm a little out of date at the moment on that...I still have SCSI )

I'm sure most everything now is running firewire, etc.

Most systems are being sold with 2 GB of RAM... is that really enough for PT HD3 and a couple of DCP Cards? If you ever come through Western MA, look me up...

Thanks,
Jon

If I'm not mistaken, (and I'm not positive...it's been awhile since I've reviewed the specs, especially the newer stuff).

The Host Based Systems such as LE, use the internal CPU processors and RAM. Where as the HD core systems (and the extra farm cards) use the DSP chips on the cards. This is where the expansion chassis usually comes into play if you need a lot of DSP horsepower, or you're running 100+ tracks with lots of plugin's, etc. The more farm cards, the more plugins you can use.

This is partially what has set Digi apart from all the other programs on the market (as well as hardware). But also $$$$.

Aaron:

I am changing to the MAC Pro, 3.0 Ghz, 4-8GB RAM, Dual 23" Cinema Displays, 250 GB System Drive, 750GB Audio Drive and a Glyph 3 Space Hot Swap RAID, Pro Tools 6 space expansion chassis for all the PT Cards so I have room for PCIe Plug-in Farm Cards like UA Extreme Pack, etc on the MAC Pro.

A Serious increase in speed, storage, and $$$... Ouch. I'm certain I'll get over the pain soon enough (read --- when it arrives.)

Thanks for your suggestion. Why is it that every time I breathe, the Grand total for the studio increase by multi K$$$?

Have a nice day.

Jon