UAN - new Control Room build

[RJHollins]

Thank-you very much for the links above Glenn !!

I tracked down a price tag on those cam hinges ...

'They' weren't kidding when they said $uper Door! Looks to be about $130/ hinge.
The magnetic sealer tracks are $20/ft. I'll need about 17 ft for 2 side runs & the top.

With the door being about 6' 8" x 36" x 1 3/4" solid oak [as the base], I was wondering if 3 hinges would be correct

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As for the progress side ... well, I guess slowly is better than nothing. I keep thinking about Andres' sig regarding designing/build ratio. It's tough when people are calling on projects and I have to say 'no can do for now'. And really, before I would be comfortable, I'd want to 'shoot out' the room, run listening test, etc. before opening.

And yet, I still have a couple of to yet resolve ... and they are kinda important.

Heating/AC & fresh air. and the other thing ... getting electricity into this room.

I've been going though the book and forum trying to gather ideas & solutions from other projects. One thing I haven't been able to figure is HOW to get the actual wires into this CR room Maybe there is a page in Rod's book that I overlooked ... but what I think I need would be 2 separate feeds. One for audio, the other for lighting/AC/heat/etc.

To be clear ... my room will be computer based [DAW]. There is no recording to do, so hardware would be minimal. There WILL be, however, the need for several servers. My thought was to get them 'outside' the CR, and run data lines into the CR [CAT].

I'm trying to have everything laid out in SketchUP, but I not really sure how to best get the physical wire in/out of the room. Questions like:.

1. do I penetrate BOTH walls straight in, or maybe through PVC tubing or something ?

Once the wire is inside, the 'plan' was to use the type of 'exterior' runs like you'd see in a temp office. [maybe called channel strips]. Similar idea for the lighting.

Having CAT data lines [I'd like keep all the computer fans/heat/noise out of the room [if possible], and yet have the ability to add additional lines later, as needed.

Oh ... have a structure question too ... Glenn, in the back of the room you designed in symmetrical 'kick-ins' on the back wall. Do I need to do anything on the side opposite the sump pump? Treatment ??? Can it be used for anything ... or is it just 'wasted'.

thanks for all the help !!!!

[gullfo]

check the rating on the hinges but i think you only need 2 assuming they're rated 300lb or more each.

you can run conduit between the rooms - use a rubber coupler to decouple them (oxymoron?) and seal the ends with putty pads. check building code to determine PVC versus metal.

the kick-ins are isolation walls... on the far side of the sump you'll want to have the other isolation wall with an access door. while this is not the perfect isolation solution you have to have access to the sump and presumably allow water to flow to it... but it will be better than having it fully open.

[RJHollins]

check the rating on the hinges but i think you only need 2 assuming they're rated 300lb or more each.

you can run conduit between the rooms - use a rubber coupler to decouple them (oxymoron?) and seal the ends with putty pads. check building code to determine PVC versus metal.

the kick-ins are isolation walls... on the far side of the sump you'll want to have the other isolation wall with an access door. while this is not the perfect isolation solution you have to have access to the sump and presumably allow water to flow to it... but it will be better than having it fully open.

Reading the specs from ZERO, the Z950 is rated up to 500 lbs. The Z955 is up to 300 lbs. Both specs use a 'Door Rating = 1 1/2 pairs. I know it would be very helpful if I knew the weight of the door at this point but I ain't gots that info yet

Getting electrical wires in, and 'data' lines/etc out of the CR through PVC is OK with code here. As you've pointed out in other threads, sealing up any hole in the room is critical. Maybe this is a 'dumb' question, but I'd rather look it than do it

Given that I'd have ONLY the choice of new walls or the ceiling to do the 'wiring' ... is there a 'best' of a bad situation. For instance, it would be very convenient to bring electrical lines into the front left corner of the CR. [possibly behind the corner chunky trap] since most of the power needs will plug in at the front of the room. For lighting, since a switch is planned near the CR door, a line would enter from that area to the switch[s] which would then run around the ceiling perimeter for side track lighting.

The 'technical' questions is '... with the build-up of sound pressure in the corners of the room [thus the strategic placement of the chunky corner traps], it would seem that a hole in the corner would be the worst place to do this ??
Since I'd need to pierce the outer wall ... and for this, to enter through the top front left corner [PVC], THEN run a tube down and over to the middle floor of the front INNER wall, and enter the room there ??? Can anyone follow what I just wrote

Let me stop on that issue until someone straightens me out!
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Glenn ... my question on the back corner was either not clear [most likely], or I did not understand your response, so I've enclosed an overhead view, circling the area in question.
Since the sump pump area will ONLY be accessible from outside the CR, I was wondering if I should do anything more in the circled area [especially BEFORE the inner wall closes it up]. I mean should I maybe hang some bats in that corner, or stack a few rolls of fiberglass there, or just leave it be [maybe a smaller reverb chamber

OK ... and just for grins, a glimpse of the front [1st draft].


------------ EDIT ------

wow ... I found an Excel file called 'Room Mode Calculator SAE', and entered in the base dimensions of my room [from drywall to drywall] . Now I'm really concerned

Not sure I'm doing it right. I used the following: H= 80.75", W= 143.5", L= 183.25".

I know I don't fully understand everything that the spreadsheet calculated [I'm trying to learn], but from the novice perspective ... is this room going to be a disastor
Granted, with the limit ceiling height ... how concerned should I be ?!? I'll post the Excel file here for review ... please, if this is bad, I need help to get it right. THANKS!!!!

[gullfo]

conceptually you could make that a closet...

[RJHollins]

conceptually you could make that a closet...

Measurements show an 11" opening, so I couldn't even utilize it as a server rack ... oh well.
Just wanted to be sure to leave as is.

Today I was out at the Lumber supplier. They have the ' 1 inch FORMULAR 150 Extruded Polystyrene' insulation boards, the 5/8" drywall, 1x3 furring, and caulk for the initial between the joist treatment. So I put that order in. Green Glue is on the way. Due to the limited storage area here, I have to bring materials in phases.

Still 2 phone lines to re-route. All the joist bins have been silicon caulked. Whether that made a diff or not, it won't hurt.

While out shopping, I checked out some HVAC options, and also a Lighting store.

That's all the news thats fit to print

Continued THANKS for the expert guidance!

[RJHollins]

update:

Slowly ... getting more parts of this project together.

With the 'design' part being worked out is so important [on a number of levels], none the least is determining the materials & labor cost so that a realistic budget can be known. From what I'm able to conclude as of now, I have a fairly good base expense laid out [spreadsheet]. Having a financial planner AND a contractor in the family has been very helpful too ... so we took the projected base costs .... and QUADdrupled it
All I can say is ... nobody fainted or screamed so we now have a GO.

The long term thinking is this ... within the restrictions of building a control room in the basement of this house, I'll be able to test several aspects, both from a business and from an acoustics perspective.

I have no idea what the music business will be. Anyone that thinks they know ... well, good for them.

As to this design. Honestly ... this is a somewhat different approach than what we studied back in college [in the 70's] Hidley was the 'Man'. During my years as a full time engineer, I had been involved in maybe 4 or 5 studio designs/builds along the way. Each designer had their own way ... and usually shared NO secrets.
Since this project began, I've been reading the various threads [here] from others' doing their design/builds ... and have tried to learn from what advice given for the project.

In no way have I been able to learn it all ... being now totally without a room to work in, I have to move on all fronts. Will trying to learn, I have to also get this structure treated, get the room built, and then get a starting treatment in place. Once I can shoot the room, then I'll know what we're dealing with inside AND how well we did on the iso. Right now it's just a 3-d image in SketchUP. I DO know how well the 10 broadband absorbers are currently doing. They have actually been a sanity saver up to this point [they are just leaning against the concrete walls] There is still so much to do ... and I can't wait to get into this room.

So with the financing in place ... I with have the delivery of materials for 'Ceiling Beef-up' coming Monday afternoon. Having compared the various materials suggested, I decided on the FOAMULAR #150 - 15 sheets. Comes in 1" x 4'x8'. The test piece I got is working GREAT. Pushed it up into all the nails above ... holding like a charm. Importantly, the material is decent to work with ... no crumbling/ no smell, cuts with a razor blade, and it doesn't weight a ton. Once I get these pieces measured/cut and fit, this will be the template for the next 2 layers of 5/8" drywall.
From the GreenGlue Guys, we figure 5 cases of GG, and 3 cases of Acoustic Sealant. That should be good for a start.

[RJHollins]

Question:

To get electric wires into the CR, via decoupled PVC tubing [or conduit], we have to enter thru the 2 framing walls. Where is the 'best' place to do this [acoustically/isolation]? Or is it 'no place is really good', but because you have to, go with logical convenience .?.

Thanks!!

[jlshelby]

Are the jpg files also from sketchup? I really like the detailed layout.

[RJHollins]

Are the jpg files also from sketchup? I really like the detailed layout.

yes they are. I bought the V-Ray rendering plug-in for SketchUP.

[gullfo]

one place is generally as good as another to enter the room. typically, you can put the entry where it is most convenient to your console etc. since it is decoupled and sealed it shouldn't be a problem.

[RJHollins]

progress report ....

It's been a busy couple weeks ... I even had time to work on the control room !

The first shipment of materials. 15 sheets of 1" 4x8 FOAMULAR, 80 1x3, and a 1/2 doz 2x4.
AAAhhhh ... the sweet smell of lumber

and FINALLY ... after concerns from the 'household', got the green light to remove X-bracing between the joist. Anytime you start altering structure elements [like a floor support], people will have genuine concern. Having done the homework, approval of structural engineer, and some time for the lay person to better understand what is to be done ... it finally all came together. In less than 30 minutes I had them all out without shakin' the building ! All I can say is ... about HALF the squeaking has gone away, and walking about on the floor upstairs is perfectly fine .... nobody even notices the change.

I've gone in and silicon caulked all the joist 'bins'. Not sure of any difference, but it didn't hurt [ OK ... the hand and neck were a bit sore afterward ].

I've started cutting and installing the 1" rigid board. I first tried cutting with a razor blade, then I tried a special knife. I got to say ... I was NOT liking how this was going ... from a SAFETY perspective. The left hand was getting nervous watching the right hand with the blade. After cutting 2 piece I stopped. Today I went to Home Depot and bought a nice hand jig saw, vary speed, and a nice fine tooth blade. It cuts this board like butter, and is much, much safer.
I also picked up a 10" compound miter saw & stand. We don't have that much cutting to do, but I want to have the right tools to do the job right.

I also meet with contractor brother. He's been busy finishing up some rather large projects. He took me up to meet one of his suppliers. Got everything set-up for all the lumber, drywall [they have the 5/8" mildew resist in stock - and recommends for basement], and all the standard insulation we'll need, along with the ceiling tiles I need for the remainder of the basement. The extra good thing is that they'll ship in small quantities 'in house' at an appointed time. very nice.

There were a couple construction technique questions that have come up that I would sure appreciate some 'words of wisdom' on. These of course come up due to concerns of isolation that maybe are handled differently.

Before I ask, I think I should get some pictures or drawings together so that I can be as concise as possible.

Thanks for being there !!

[gullfo]

and once you acquire all those nice tools you can take on all those other projects you were putting off

[RJHollins]

and once you acquire all those nice tools you can take on all those other projects you were putting off

my dirty little secret EXPOSED !

That's why I was planning to give the tools to my brother once the project is built

No, really ... I've reserved the space in front of the CR to redo a little workshop area so
that I can actually build or fix something when I need too !

[RJHollins]

Have a safe & happy holiday !!

[RJHollins]

It's been an eventful week or so, much of it involving medical emergencies with my Mom. Although things have settled down for her, they have more test to do while she is in the hospital. Its been very stressful to say the least.

In keeping my mind occupied, I had found some time to work on the CR project.

Picked up some concrete patch, and a 20lb bucket of pre-mix [just add water]. The 'patch' was to make some minor repairs to the foundation walls that had firring strips nailed from the original darkroom. There were also some minor cracks to take care of.
The 'just add water' mix was to fill a mistaken Main load bearing beam pocket. They had to 'move' the pocket over, but never filled in the mistake one. Been like that since. Well it took some 12+ lbs of concrete to fill it. Mixing that stuff was a pain ... mostly in the hand and wrist. I've included a couple photos. The concrete is still drying, so it now looks like the fill is uneven, but in reality it is smooth.

I also loaded many of the joist bins with the 1" Foamular. There are a couple bins that still have wires in there that I've need to figure what I can do. I had to postpone my electrician friend due to the med emergencies ... there are some lines I know I can get moved, but there are a couple that are not so easy.

I included pics of one of the problem wires. The problem being, there may not be anyway to move these wires out. I need to get the foam up there before the dual layers of 5/8" drywall can go in. ANY ideas on how to handle this ???

Also ... as seen in the pic of the joist. What should I do about the 'exposed' face plate [if that's what its called] where the joist ends at ??

Thanks for any guidance !!!