UAN - new Control Room build

[gullfo]

on squareness - my last house was balloon framed from the mid-20's and the builders were magicians... measuring the plaster you were about 1/2" out in any direction. ripping it down to the "real" 2x4 framing (actually 2x4) you find 2"-3" out easily depending on pre-lunch or post-lunch work it took a lot of shimming to get modern materials to fit back in especially actually square windows when the originals were all hand cut...

[fallenmunk]

The 'top plate' in question is on the 'inner room' build. The 'room' that will NOT be attach
to any of the existing structure [just the floor will be common].

Thanks for clearing up my confusion.

[xSpace]

Not having much to go on (picture wise) your interior walls are under no seismic load so adding the top plate before the wall every gets stood erect is the easy way out. You are assuming that you have to tie the corners together but this isn't specifically so. Top plate from end to end, raise the wall, brace the wall, and repeat. Nail the corner studs securely. If you have not considered installing OSB sheathing onto the face of your interior wall assembly for rigidity, do so now .


As another option if it just keeps you up at night, run the top plate as typical (within 3 3/4" of the end(s) stand up, build the next supporting wall frame and top plate to within 4 feet of the end and stand that one up. Secure the corner studs and cut your top plate piece, about 4 feet, and install the shorter piece rather than trying to do the whole length of the wall.

The hard part comes when trying to attach the joists

[RJHollins]

All great tips !!! Thanks everyone ...

Today was another bit of room construction ... gotta grab the BRO whenever he's
available !

I must say its been 'interesting' building in a REAL 3D space ... I thought
SketchUP was a challenge All I can say is I WISH that home basements didn't
need to have sump pumps with a slope in the floor. oh well.

Anyway ... we have the outer frame built and placed. Did some 'fine' tuning of that
1st thing today. Then we started on the inner walls.

I did the 'string line' in the joist to get us a measure down point for the inner walls, we then
had 3 2x4 chunks [1-PT, 2-regular], nailed together for use as a reference to measure up
to the string line that was set 1/2" below joist. We laid out each wall on the floor for
nailing, square-ing [?], and nailing on temp cross bracing. We are using these trigger clamps
to hold corners ... and I screwed in temp spacing blocks to the outer frame.

I DO have some pics [really I do] ... but since the 'theater-of-operation' required max space,
it's tough to get any kind of angle to shoot from ... plus when the BRO gets going ... its
kinda none stop.

So, after a very early morning rehearsal, the plan is to get on to further building !

OH ... remember that band ... maybe big in the 80's, called 'BASHED THUMB' ...
had a session with them first thing this morning

Are we supposed to break blood blisters ?, or .... feed a cold ...
I can never keep that straight.

[RJHollins]

OK ... getting some pics together ... in the meantime.

As we continue to assemble walls, the issue of ceiling rafter material is under review

Due to the limits of the upper joist bin depths ~ 6 3/4", AND the desire to maintain
the tallest ceiling in the CR ... about 82" I was considering premium 2x6's to span
the 12'-4" length. Besides the lumber itself, adding 2 layers of 5/8" drywall, GreenGlued, and
the expected lighting & AC vents ... the lumber guys say we OK with 2x6's ... However, my
contractor brother is NOT satisfied.

He is looking into something called LSL beams [laminated strand lumber]. My only question
was whether it can take drywall screws on the narrow side ?

Any experience with LSL ???

[RJHollins]

A few pix from the past few sessions. I should note that it was tough to stop and
snap any off during the build. The Bro likes to keep it moving !

To give a sense ...

We started on the 2 outer frame walls to establish the structure perimeter, while also
getting a feel for the building variations. Because I had purchased full plate lengths, the
decision was to maximize floor & joist contact by custom cutting the studs at each
placement. Once the plates were 24"oc marked off, we placed 2 blocks on the floor and
measure up to the joist bottoms. From there we were able to build the wall laid out on the
floor, and then nudge into position. OK ... so maybe more than nudge ... but the bad boys
lined up, and we level & plumbed them. We did NOT yet fix them to the building until we
are certain how everything was going to lay out with real lumber. But they were not going to
move ... we did drive a 'friction' nail in just to be sure the bottom lines stayed.

The next day we did a couple of lite adjustments to the outers as we verified our
measurements & alignment. From there the inner wall build was started.

Although tough to see in the photos, I had gone into the joist with screws and a string
tie off 1/2" below. This allowed us to get stud length measurements across the entire
span at each location. Then with 3 2x4 blocks [1 PT, & 2 standard] nailed together, we then
could measure from the blocks to the string line to get stud lengths. Again, we did custom
cuts on all these.

Walls were again assembled on the floor. We did temporarily square them, and cross-
braced with furring strips with finishing nails. We soon realized that THAT was unnecessary
as the wall frames were very solid. More solid than I thought they'd be ... much to the
scorned look from BRO Anyway ... he does humor me at times

Our third session [today] was to finish the remaining inner wall build. First up was to check
our previous work, and then, testing layout strategy for the inner room.

As many know [or will find out] ... what LOOKS like a straight concrete wall or floor can
be shockingly off. When you add variations in more than one plane [walls, floors, ceiling],
the placement and alignment of the new build can be quite tricky. You adjust one corner,
then the other is out. You move a wall, and the next walls spacing gets goofy.

The priority was to maintain a consistent double wall where the Super Door was going. The
'hinge' side kick in wall was then squared, which became a reference to the kick-in wall on
the other side of the room. We also measured out from the front wall to the kick wall, and
transfered those measurements to the wall along the side foundation. Again, it was a bit
tricky, but it did come together.

Tomorrow we again get together to install the very top plates for the room. It will be at
that time the re-checking and adjustments will take place.

To this end, we held out installing any of the corner 'nailer' studs, as the suggestion by
Glenn to leave access to screw top plates from underneath. Should that be the way we go,
we will then add the 'nailer's' afterward.

Still much to do ... but I'm liking what we have so far ! Once the plates are on and the
alignment is set, then we go about sinking the anchors for the bottom plate.

Coming up soon ... da door. Right now the framing is left open to give us the most flex
in placement. But BEFORE that, we are waiting on ceiling rafter answers regarding the
'Laminated Stranded Lumber' and the use of drywall screws. If anyone knows the definitive
answers .... please share

OH ... and the pictures ... I took them with my phone, and the images have a barrel distortion
that looks kinda weird.

Thank-you!

[RJHollins]

Progress report:

Well ... today was a little different order of build than what I thought ... no surprise.

The Bro got in this afternoon. Did a review & check of the previous work. We also went
over some of the upcoming issue.

1. The ceiling rafters. We looked into the LSL beams. The requirement of 12" oc was stipulated
by the lumber guy. This was not possible without some major headache. While here, our
Structural Eng called back. For a 12'-3" span, with dbl 5/8" drywall, GG, lighting, etc, AND
the weight of the beams, we can use DBL 2x6's [glued & nailed] as a single rafter beam.

2. Our insulation guy is coming in to spec out the room.

So ... onto the next step. Bro started checking the corner square ... then he throws the
3 - 4 - 5 maneuver on it, said we need to shift a 1/4", rechecks ... says 'balls on'. I throw a
square on it ... sure 'nough ... 'balls on' Anchor this corner ... I'm like, well, OK but
shouldn't we ah ah ...., LOCK IT DOWN ... ok, I get out the hammer drill, a regular drill, my
anchor spikes, hammer and the shop vac. The hammer drill put a smile on Bro. We proceeded
to insert and hammer home the floor plate. This was done right down the line. I was getting
nervous as we got to the back of the room. I'm thinking we are going to have to trash and
rebuild the back wall. So here we are anchoring THAT wall I'm like ... oh man ...
So on we go ... we get to the last corner, and I can't look [but my astral body is crawling
over his shoulder to have a peek. He sets in the square, I hear one tap from the hammer, and
then ........... 'balls on'. I jumped in staring at the corner with square, and after the stunned
cleared, I looked and said ... it is 'balls on' !

That's it .... we're taking the rest of the night off.

I did manage a couple of pix shots ...

Tomorrow we get together to then attach the top, top plate. Once that is all locked in, we
can then add all the addition 'nailer' studs [about 15+ of them].

There was probably more ... just can't recall at the moment ...

Anyway ........ Kinda happy

[gullfo]

berry berry nice! on the LSL, my read up on them seemed to indicate better than 12" oc (ie 16" oc would be ok) but best to go with people who know the materials.

http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/cal ... pan#answer

[RJHollins]

oooo wow ... Glenn ... I was waiting to hear from you !!

I'm glad that YOU didn't see anything wrong with what we've done to this point ! I know
that the pix don't provide a real good overview, nonetheless, I'm trying to maintain the
highest level of build that possible [given the environment challenge].

We had to pause any build today [no babysitter]. That fine, as other things had to happen.

Called in the rafter order today. Have 30 2x6x14' coming in tomorrow @ noon.

Also ... just had the insulation guy over to scope out both the CR, and to look at issues on
the house in general. I have a 10' iceberg hanging from a back yard gutter that says
something is wrong!

He was intrigued by what was going on with the build, and the requirements. The treatment
for the framed walls is nothing special ... so we mainly we sus'ing out how to deal with the
joist bins.

The is ONE bit of confusion [on my part] ... just HOW MUCH is TOO MUCH compression of
insulation

Thanks !

[gullfo]

you want to avoid coupling but ensure enough pressure on the inner ceiling to dampen it. gravity helps in this regard. in general, don't compress pink insulation more than say 20-30%. if necessary you might slit the insulation a bit so it flows around the joists and keep it from compressing too much.

[xSpace]

"Called in the rafter order today."

Joists...

[RJHollins]

Thanks Brien for the correction !
In my effort to separation the distinction between the existing floor joist, and
the build of the new ceiling ... it was confusing to explain. Nonetheless ... I appreciate
being corrected. Thank-you.

Progress report ...

Had a small delivery of insulation.

PL_PID_1000000222.jpg

We started with a 2-bagger.

Before:

PL_PID_1000000227.jpg

After:

PL_PID_1000000228.jpg

The pix only shows the 8' run ... I have since filled the bins the full length, short a few,
as a couple of 'extra' pieces were kinda dogs. I'll use them elsewhere.

Once the ceiling joist are installed, I'll have a better sense of how to complete this part.

A side observation.

When this project began, I had a fair recollection of sound transferring between floors. When
the original ceiling tiles were removed, it was if the floor was not even there. So the beef up
process began. 1st layer, caulked & sealed. Then the 2nd layer with GG sandwich, caulked &
sealed. Furring strips add with C & S. After all that effort, I must say I was rather disappointed
with the level of sound transferring through. Maybe concern would be a better word. I had
been rechecking my work, ensuring good seals throughout. Granted, the rest of the basement
had nothing done to it, so the sound just traveled everywhere. Now comes the first install
of attic insulation.
If the word 'dramatic' could apply .... the transformation that has taken place is quite
impressive. I'm not just speaking to the large absorptive surface that now covers beef
drywall, but for the first time, the upstairs voices are more like murmurings. Yes I can
understand the conversation, but this requires focusing in on it.
I'm not explaining this too well ... and I understand that that we are early in the build
process ... yet we just had a magnitude jump. I am encouraged

And then, yet another delivery ...

PL_PID_1000000223.jpg

These guys show up with the cherry picker truck. Then proceed to swing it out over
the top of the cars ! and place it in front of the garage .

PL_PID_1000000226.jpg

Premium grade 2x6x14' .... 30 of them

Well ... we'll see what the weekend schedule is!
My, usual, BIG THANKS for all the guidance, instruction, and education in this quest!

Sincerely

[RJHollins]

Here's a quick question ...

With the 2x4 framed walls in place ... 24"oc ... I've been all through
Rods' 2nd edition book ... I see NO mention of installing 'block' between
the 2x4 wall studs [typically seen in 16oc residential frames]. My walls are
only 7 foot tall.

So the question be ... do we install blocking, or leave stud cavities full height.

Also ... what about the door 'area'.

Basic question, I know, but I've seen some [here] putting them in, while others
don't seem to have.

Curious minds would like to know

Thanks!

[gullfo]

adding the blocking on the walls can help improve the overall frame rigidity and provide a space for the insulation batts which will not now slide down into the bottom of the wall (using insulation hooks or mesh help here as well). plus if can also help change the wall resonance if you place the blocks in different locations on the wall (alternate 2 blocks versus 1 block per space).

[RJHollins]

Hi Glenn,

hmmm ... your above post has raised several questions on this end

Please bear with me as I try to better understand how you'd want me to proceed.

I understand how blocking would improve frame rigidity ... ok there, it's the mounting
of insulation AND the changing of the 'wall resonance' that concerns me

1. Insulation - I thought that we were going to use faced insulation that I would just
staple to the frame between the wall studs top to bottom.

2. Wall resonance - conceptually I understand, however, I have no reference point that
I would be [or even should be] changing it to !?!?

From other 'teachings' you've posted, the idea of 24"oc was an 'ideal' spacing that allowed
the bulky corner traps to work more effectively. OK there.

I still have time before getting to the wall insulation ... till then, I'd really appreciate
if you could show/tell me exactly what we should do. Like I mentioned ... I've seen some
builds use blocks, while others not. Based on the size/construction of my room, I defer
to your knowledge on how exactly I should be doing this, and so very much appreciate your
guidance !

Sincerely.


Its 'Donation' time of the month ... [which I gladly do]