UAN - new Control Room build

[RJHollins]

and he's back ... well, never really left

Current status:

With the new Control Room in a workable state ... the major delay has to do with getting
new video monitors, and finalizing my desk. At the moment, I have an old CTR monitor
that is about 2 feet deep, propped up on a makeshift table with several cinder blocks.
A portable 3-1/2 foot table serves as a temp desk.

It ain't pretty But I need a place to work. I just need to do some
better research on these newer LCD or LED thin monitors .... something around 24" that
has better ratio for apps [as I read that 'wide screen' ratios are NOT comfortable for viewing
DAW's ... even though great for movies [which is not a big concern].
The OTHER importable aspect is trying to find a monitor withOUT a high GLOSSY screen. I
find it very distracting to see reflections in the monitor. 3rd ... wide viewing angles

Once I get the monitor/desk issue decided, I think that I would then be in a better situation
to 'shoot' the room, and see what the acoustical footprint is.

I should point out, however, that whatever issues the current mess is doing ... this is still the
best sounding room in the house !!!

Which brings me to the current task underway .... the 'REST of the BASEMENT'

Outside the front of the control room is a small room that is slated as a multi purpose
dressing area, some storage, a place to hook up additional computer servers .... and a
coffee maker

We have finished painting the drywall [front studio outside wall]. Two other walls are
concrete foundations, that have been stripped of an old 'peg board' work area. Walls have
been patched, painted with Primer, and 2 coats of finish paint. I've also installed the same
type of flooring as in the control room. Next ... to install the new drop ceiling that I had torn
out prior to the 'build'.

Couple questions, as I've been searching the net for similar questions/issues.

??? adding INSULATION between the joist ... then the drop ceiling ???

Wondering ... is there any data that suggest any benefit from adding insulation between joists
above the drop ceiling ?

To distinguish ... we are NOT suggesting anything that would compare to the control room
build ! What I have noticed, since removing the old panels in other parts of the basement
is the 'dust webs' in the joists, and the dust/dirt that settles on the back of the old panels.
Of course, the panels there are some 40 years old. They MUST come out and be replaced.

Additionally ... I'm finding that I am able to leave my control room door OPEN while I am doing
most of my work. Yes, sound does travel about the basement, but the upstairs has had no
issue with sound leaking. STILL ... if adding insulation would make a significant mark on
further reduction ... then I'd want to do this BEFORE the ceiling goes up !

I don't want to waste money [obviously] .... the 5 packages of [6-1/2" unfaced] R19 insulation sits in the
garage .... if I DON'T use it in the basement, then I use it up in the attic of the main house ...
which DEFINITELY needs re-insulating after 50 years!

Want to spend wisely, but also want to do it right/ efficiently the first time

As always ... big thanks to the resident Staff !

I still try to read and learn from all the new postings.

Sincerely.

[RJHollins]

nudge

First off ... to SoundMan2020 ....

Hope ALL is WELL after hearing news on the recent quake!!

2. comments still welcomed re: insulation before drop ceiling install in remainder of basement.

Thanks!

[Soundman2020]

Hope ALL is WELL after hearing news on the recent quake!!

Thanks, RJ! Appreciate the the thought!

Yes, all is well, thanks. No damage at my place. This one last night wasn't too big: just magnitude 6.7, but it lasted long: something like two minutes, until the shaking became imperceptible. But it sure did get our attention! Not fun. We are sort of used to them here (if you can ever really get "used to" earthquakes), but still, it isn't something pleasant, trying to run down stairs that are moving around pretty bad.

Anyway, your update: I'm just heading off to bed now, so I'll take a look at your update tomorrow, and get back to you.

- Stuart -

[Soundman2020]

Wondering ... is there any data that suggest any benefit from adding insulation between joists above the drop ceiling ?

There probably is data on that, but I don't have any off hand. However, it simply makes sense to do that. I certainly would. If the drop ceiling is very solid and sealed, then you have a resonant cavity up there that needs damping. And if the drop ceiling is just light-weight (typical "acoustic" tiles), then you have a selective bass trap up there, so you might as well put it to good use! (Ordinary "acoustic" tiles are pretty transparent to low frequencies, and only deal with mids to highs, so the lows will get through).

The insulation won't help very much with isolation (unless the ceiling is a proper MSM system), but it will help with treatment, if you want to use that area for tracking, for example. The effect on isolation would be minimal: just a couple of dB at best. But as treatment, it certainly has benefits.

Now, if you are looking to improve isolation in that area, why not take out the drop ceiling entirely, put some resilient channel across the joists, and hang drywall from that with insulation above it? That sure would make a difference, if you seal it well and there are no other flanking paths. I bet you'd see an improvement of 10 or 20 dB, maybe more, as compared to what you have right now. That's probably worthwhile, and might allow you to work with your door open more often!


- Stuart -

[RJHollins]

Time to update the thread ...

Well ... to build the new Control Room required 're-arranging' ALL the stuff that ends up in a basement. Things had been stacked floor to ceiling, in a kinda, get it out of the way so that we can get the room built ... then reorganize.

Thought it might take a month .... maybe 2.

Little did I know it would take that long just to get to the structural beefing up, let along actually building the room ..... HAH ...

I had moved my semblance of an office to what was a 8'x14' landing area from the floor above. No pix that I can find to show that 'little slice of heaven', as it was surrounded by overhead water lines, all varieties of electrical, tele, cable tv, extension cords ... you name it.

The 2 concrete foundation walls had a 'Peg Board' mounted from a work bench area from another lifetime. It had evolved into a random, chaotic, 'dart board' where, IF it stayed up there ... it remained there. Just a mess ... and a storage system that just invites DISASTER for my natural tendencies

Needless to say, the year long construction ... along with all the dust and dirt from lumber cutting to drywall & mudding had permeated the entire basement ... no matter HOW well covered [it seemed]

The time had come to PAUSE further work on the Control Room proper, and begin cleaning up the surrounding area ! Due to the 'musical chair' technique employed throughout the construction ... I figured it best to begin the restoration in the small 'entrance' area.

After an initial clearing out ... we had gotten the outside wall of the front of the control room taped/mudded, and 3 coats of paint. Since the concrete floor was having issues with paint trying to peal ... I decided, NO MORE PAINT ! Cleaned and scrapped the floor, and brought in the same 'fiber' flooring that went in the control room.

PL_PID_D9F14087-97A5-47D2-8B87-9D3A026A3010.jpg

Because I don't ALWAYS to things in the right order and, some reluctance ... I held to my ground. Clean and redo this room. The 'peg board' gets trashed !

PL_PID_75AB974D-5294-4FE7-8548-85A5D4E12D03.jpg

We also had an old partition wall that was impeding the clean start ... so THAT had to go!

PL_PID_413958F1-B37F-439E-B60B-21240C805FB7.jpg

The foundation walls needed some concrete patching from previous nails. So got it patched up .... then got a nice coat of Primer on there [actually several applications to deal with all the mini 'holes' and nubs in the wall]. THEN ... a couple of coats of finish paint.

PL_PID_BFF78A8E-A1EA-48D7-BB6F-3B1CE5C0C29C.jpg

I had also gone in and re-dressed ALL the snarl of cables/ wires in the rafters, AND, used the pipe foam wrap to insulate/ cover all the hot water lines.

Next was to put in a new drop ceiling. So began installing the new rails.

PL_PID_59DBF11D-BC9D-4136-BC88-919840314C85.jpg

It was decided NOT to put any holes in the outer control room wall ... so we went with a fully 'suspended' technique along that wall AND the 2 concrete walls ['cause nailing a board to the concrete just seemed like TOO much fun. So I bowed to the recommendations from the guys who actually install this stuff to suspend those sections.

PL_PID_9A9AA8A8-CE50-48DC-BECB-CEAC51C5D9FF.jpg

As with many things in life, I had to 'go around' certain obstacles in order to maximize other gains ... like ceiling height. So, a piece or two had to allow access to valves, pipes, etc.

PL_PID_1F85619E-7A08-4799-9A8B-155FCD37F788.jpg

An early view of most panels put in:

PL_PID_29A88451-F4C5-4879-A5FF-6FFFCED21083.jpg

Of course ... the NEED to start getting things OUT of the other half of the basement began.
But NOT before some 20 loads of clothes washing were done.

Although the lighting is temporary at this point ... we have:

PL_PID_B5A9B315-0A32-4056-A920-4A607DDB7C59.jpg

Now I can start sorting through clothes to keep, and those to hand down, or 'Good Will'.
Hard to see from the pix, but there IS more light than is showing up

At least we got a start going here. There are things that have NOT been gotten to in over a year!

The 'OTHER SIDE' of the basement.

The NEXT of the plan is to get access to the old drop ceiling, and get the panels to the trash. Then I want to re-set the old frames [level and re-wire] to prep for a new ceiling.

I have an issue [cold air leak near the basement door that needs to be dealt with]. When the ceilings out, we'll be able to address that.

That half of the basement is also somewhat of an area I want to try and improve. It is right outside my control room door. There are all the pipes, sump pump, and the upstairs kitchen above. It is HERE where I'm considering adding insulation between the floor joist BEFORE putting the panels in.

I KNOW that this will not provide ANY form of isolation, but I wonder if may assist in some way as a 'spring' within the 2 surfaces. If NOT .... then the only benefit may be keeping dust webs from forming within the space

Still much to do ... but wanted to get an update here.

THANKS for reading along ... and always, THANKS for this great site AND people!!!

Sincerely.

[Soundman2020]

Progress! Progress is GOOD! Especially when it is done nicely.

I KNOW that this will not provide ANY form of isolation, but I wonder if may assist in some way as a 'spring' within the 2 surfaces. If NOT .... then the only benefit may be keeping dust webs from forming within the space

Well, insulation has a bit of mass, so it will increase isolation very slightly, and the drop ceiling kind has some mass to it, and is somewhat resilient, so I guess there might be some form of MSM going on there, but hard to say what!

I wonder if there is any research on drop ceilings and isolation? It would be interesting to see what effect it really has.

And of course, you could always paint it with some of that "acoustic silencing paint" that we've been talking about on another thread!!!


- Stuart -

[RJHollins]

Well, slowly ... but hopefully surely, the time has come to pause from listening, testing of the new room. Also a break from remodeling the 'other' parts of the basement.

Yes, there is much left to do ... for one thing, time to get my working desk together.

Though I do have some equipment that will be available to use [keyboards, drums machines, bass, guitar, etc], the primary functions will be mixing & mastering.

The main work desk is planned to be a modified office desk that will basically support a computer monitor, mouse, & keypad ... along with 'space' to write, etc.

Using my temporary setup, I've narrowed in on the sizing of the desk. I've been trying to be very mindful that anything in the listening zone will have 'issues' ... yet I also need functionality.

Here's my initial design.

Top View w-dimensions.jpg

iso view-1.jpg

side view - 1.jpg

The wood top is 1-1/2" thick mahogany, from my 1950's office desk. The legs are from a office warehouse from a newer designed metal desk.

My thought is to trim down the top into a, sort of, T-shape that would provide a nice work surface AND an area to hold a new ~24" LCD monitor. The hope is that removing some of the desk surface area [that really is unnecessary] will help minimize reflective surface area.

Although 'tilting' the desk is a consideration, the practicality [at least with this design] could be more of a problem.

Other things I'd need to consider:

The under surface of the desk would have surface areas that I'd be able [somehow] to soften down with something like 1/2" rigid fiberglass [much like is used in certain drop ceiling tiles] Just an idea

At this point, I have all the materials. I will need to do some cutting both to the wood AND the metal support beams ... and then, of course, the finishing colors. Thinking of the dark mahogany [reddish] finish, with the legs in a type of charcoal gray.

May the critique begin

Thanks!

[RJHollins]

Just wanted to wish everyone a

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year !

And a huge THANKS for all the guidance, insight, and kindness.

[Soundman2020]

And Merry Christmas to you too, RJ! Hope it's a great year for you, full of health, prosperity, and fully completed, successful studios!

- Stuart -

[RJHollins]

As to tradition ... and a little superstition

I am booked on New Years Eve in my new room.

Working on a restoration project. Great jazz guitarist & rhythm section
recorded live [through the vocalist mic] ... from a 'wire' recording [transfered to cassette]



It's a slice of Heaven in hear

Before getting back to work .... I just wanted to wish Stuart [SoundMan], Brian [xSpace], and .... Glenn [Gullfo], along with our host, John Sayer ... a most Happy, Prosperous, New Year !

Thank-you for the guidance, insight, and especially your patience and generosity.

Sincerely
RJHollins [Up All Nite Studio]

[Soundman2020]

Say. RJ! I just noticed it's been a while since you last posted on your thread, and I'm REALLY hoping for some great photos of the finished, and cool-looking REW graphs, so I can add your thread to the "Completed Studios" list!

- Stuart -

[RJHollins]

Ahh ... my friend Stuart ! Always good to hear from you

Been on the quiet side as far as the forum goes. Mainly visits to follow several builds going on. For sure ... a continual learning process. Plus, it's enjoyable to see other people looking to build.

Ah ... my Control Room. THE most enjoyed room in the house !!!

Since I last posted ... the only work I've done was to the remaining basement. The old drop ceiling on that side was pulled out. I did go into each bin and added a layer of attic insulation [R-30 I believe]. I wasn't sure what it would add to the 'noise quieting' aspect, but while I had it all opened, had the material ... put it in. I also wrapped the hot water lines with pipe insulation too.

I then reset the old grid, and re-paneled the entire ceiling and new light panels. The look of the room improved so nice! I can also verify that the reduction in noise from upstairs has been significant [though I have no numbers to relay].

The flooring is next. I'm going to do the same laminate floor as the control room. This stuff has been great. Just waiting for this endless winter to end so that I can move stuff around.

The control has several things yet to do. I still need to complete my desk. I have all the materials ... just haven't had the time. Also I need to replace my computer monitor with a more streamline LCD. The old CRT I'm using has been great ... problem is, it's HUGE [in every direction]. Plus it's rather old.

I want to get this changed because it does impact my stereo field ... it's not bad [if fact, it's pretty darn good !] but I know it will be even better. My CRT is nearly 2 ft deep, and the table and blocks that I had to place under for support has got to go. What has slowed me ... trying to find a replacement LED or LCD or something that I can actually look at. Added to that, I don't want the 16:9 widescreen ... I need a taller resolution when using the DAW.

The definitive REW analysis.

No matter how good the room currently sounds ... I've no doubt that some improvements can happen. The work that has left this room has translated very well.

Once I can clean out this monitor situation, and put the desk together, I will then shoot the room.

Stuart ... I know how extremely busy you've been at this forum alone .... and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to check on my status with the offer to review the graphs.
That part of study is something I need much better understanding of.

I'll be working on things here to ready that.

Again ... sincere THANKS!

[Soundman2020]

- Stuart -

[RJHollins]

Well GANG,

Its been some time since I've posted in my build thread. There has been a lot going on.

The 'Winding road of Life' can throw a few extra curves in there ... which brings me to this posting.

I was so fortunate that have incredible help, guidance, teaching from some of the very special people here at this forum. They more than help me create a Mastering Control Room that exceeded my most ambitious hopes/dreams. Even though I didn't get the chance to do the extra-tweaking beyond the design GULLFO had made for me ... the performance and sonics rivaled some pretty major rooms that I had worked in during my career.

Having a place to work at home, while being able to help care for my parents has been something I couldn't have planned better. Unfortunately, my Dad has had some very difficult health issues that forced full-time medical Nursing care. This was preceded by at least 1-1/2 years of progressively difficult times, particularly at night. It began most difficult for me to do audio work, as I needed to monitor [via intercom]. The stroke he had back then had led to dementia and sun-downers.

Health care cost is plain enormous, and until all financial assets are drained, insurance with then step in.

Add that Mom is up there in years, and we've had to make some major changes at the homestead. Our multi-level home is becoming more of a burden for her.

To that, we have begun the process to relocate to a better designed home for her [Ranch]. The build start should begin within 2 weeks [we guess]. Estimated completion is approx 3 months. The home is being built by a rather large company, and seeing other homes going up, they do move to a schedule.

Although so many mixed feelings, it is without doubt, the wise thing we must do. Even though I feel I've just begun getting back into engineering these past few months ... I have to put effort into packing for the move.

Is there a 'silver lining'? I don't know, but what I do know is that I will be designing for a new Control Room. I've few specific details to the space proper. The basement has 8 foot ceilings, and is built using manufactured I-Beams. There will be a finish portion of the basement, along with a full bath.

I have pushed for several modifications/changes which should help certain things. What obstacles we're left, I do not yet know.

I'm getting up there myself ... but the fire has been ignited, and the passion too deep.

I've got Sketch-UP running as I try to remember how to use it. There is no other place or people I can turn to but THIS forum. Everything I have is being put on the line.

Thanks for letting me get some of this stuff out.

Sincerely,

RJ

[Soundman2020]

Hey there RJ. So sorry to hear about your parents poor health, and your need to move, leaving behind your studio. But "life happens", as they say, and you sometimes do have to make sad choices like this. But I'm hoping that you will be able to set aside a room in the new place, and build a studio that's equally as good as the one you had to leave behind. I'll be looking out for your new thread, and I do hope I might be of some help in contributing a thing or two, as you move forward with that.

- Stuart -