"Converting" my Room for Recording and Mixing -

[Dynamex]

Hello,

my name is Christian and i am new here.
I´ve got a few recommendations for this Forum, so here i am.

I reside on the upper Floor of our House, where i have a room for my Music Gear and my Computer.
My Plan is to "convert" this Room for Recording and Mixing, also wanna use it for Gaming from time to time.

Right now it is barely treated in terms of acoustic.
I made a quick drawing with Sketchup to show you, how it looks right now.



As you can see, to my left is a Window, below that Window is an electrical heater, a plate of Stone
To my right is a door and behind me is a slanted wall, which is the housetop.
The only acoustic treatment right now is a absorber on the roof and in the corner of the Window.

As you might guess, this is far from good.

The Room is 4,8m long, 4m wide and 2,44m in height.
About 2,85m from the straight wall starts the slanted wall and the straight part below is about 1m high.

And here is the new plan for the room:






I think, turning the listening position 180 degree is the best option in this room
The grey and red cubes in the corner are Bass Traps
Absorbing above the listening Position
Building two "Walls" from Wood and/or absorbing material to place the speakers. (
Between these two "Walls" are Absorbers and the Screen.
On the left and right walls are also Absorbers.
The Rearwall isn´t shown here, but there will be a combination of Absorbers, Diffusion and Gear, mostly Guitar related, so Amps, Cabs, Guitars.


The Main Goal is not a perfect Room, but a far better one then now.
If i record something, it will be Guitar, Bass, Synthesiser/Key, Vocals and maybe some other small instruments.

Is there anything you would change right now ? Should i make something different, have i forgotten something ?

I dont have a Desk right now, but i will build on in the style of Sterling Modular, two 19" Racks Side by Side, i think.
The Screen will be updated to 30" - 34"
Speakers are JBL LSR305 Mk l, but not sure what to do.
Upgrade to Kali LP6 and after saving money, a pair of Adam S2V/S3V, Eve Audio 407 or something like that ?
If i upgrade to Kali LP6 or Eve SC 205 or something like that, i will also buy a sub,

The Space behind the "Speaker Wall" will be use for some storage, to many Stuff in this room...
To my right side i will build a side Rack for Guitar related Gear, Preamp(s), IR Loader, Space on Top for an Amp Head, ...


I will now go to bed, tired and tomorrow i will meet some friends for a walk.


Kind Regards, Christian

[Gregwor]

Welcome! Please fully fill out your profile as per the forum rules.

Your design is unique and if you're not after perfection, I'd say it's a great start. Like a lot of the control room builds on the forum, taking REW measurements along the way and fine tuning your treatment devices accordingly is recommended.

I don't think your room is big enough for numeric based diffusion on your rear wall. Behind your front wall where you want to store items, I would suggest throwing a handful of batts of insulation there (as that's one of the 12 corners in your room) and take measurements to see if you're willing to sacrifice a bit of space for the insulation. You could always build a little riser to cover the insulation and then store items on top of the riser. You would still be losing some space though.

What you have drawn will be a drastic improvement to what you have right now. Good work!

Also, I see that you're using SketchUp Free --> the online browser based one that is horrible. Go here: https://help.sketchup.com/en/downloading-older-versions and download the newest version of "Make" that your computer will handle. In the Make software or on your internet browser, you can access your 3D Warehouse and open up your model/save it to your computer.

Greg

[Dynamex]

Hello Greg,

i´ve filled out my profile.

Yes, the design is unique. I don´t want to make the room any smaller and need some place for storage.
If someone has a better idea for the Front Wall or a place for storage, i would be happy to look at it.
Maybe, if i build the absorbers to my left and right much deeper, let´s say, 12-14", i could build a cabinet/closet for storage and on top it will carry the Absorber.

I didn´t draw all absorbers, i´ve planed one for each corner of the slanted wall, too.
The problem on the rear wall is the door and the window/heater. But with two roller Boards, i could move them to position in the corner if needed and after that, move them towards the middle of the rear wall.

Measurements are planed, i´ve got a MiniDSP Umik for that and REW and Audionet Carma.

What is your suggestion for the "baffle wall" ? Wood, so there is a hard wall around/in back of the speakers or absorbing materials ? Or even a combination of both, wood and absorbers ?
I don´t want to kill to many high frequencies, so if i build the "baffle wall" with absorbers, is putting a thin foil between the insulation and fabric on top a good idea ?

I put baffle wall in quotation marks, because i am not sure to put the speakers in the wall or in front of it.

Would it hurt the sound, if i put a small showcase in the middle of the rear wall ? Got one from Ikea with a glass front, in there i could put my microphones and stuff like that, so i have it on Hand if needed.

And, last question for this post: Will Guitar Cabs on the rear wall function as absorbers ? By that i mean, if bass impinges on the Driver, would it act like a plate absorber ? Sure, you don´t know which frequencies it will absorb, i just curious.



Christian

[Gregwor]

Maybe, if i build the absorbers to my left and right much deeper, let´s say, 12-14", i could build a cabinet/closet for storage and on top it will carry the Absorber.

You could put a cabinet there and have your absorber on top of it. The absorber still only needs to be 4-6" thick.

I didn´t draw all absorbers, i´ve planed one for each corner of the slanted wall, too.

The more bass trapping the better!

Measurements are planed, i´ve got a MiniDSP Umik for that and REW and Audionet Carma.

REW is used by pretty much everyone on here so posting REW mdat files for us to check out would be the best.

What is your suggestion for the "baffle wall" ? Wood, so there is a hard wall around/in back of the speakers or absorbing materials ? Or even a combination of both, wood and absorbers ?

Without soffit wings I'm not sure you would get massive improvements by mounting the speakers in the wall. Also, your wall would have to have angled faces to mount the speakers into. Again, your design is unique. Basically, it seems that building angled walls to mount your speakers in could be tricky and somewhat ineffective. I would maybe try to tuck your wall back as far as you can while still having some storage area behind. Make the wall out of heavy material (maybe a thick sheet of OSB on framing with a layer or two of drywall or MDF on top of that. Then, put some 2'x2' panels 4" thick on the wall with the backs of your speakers right up against the 4" thick insulation. This will help with SBIR.

I don´t want to kill to many high frequencies, so if i build the "baffle wall" with absorbers, is putting a thin foil between the insulation and fabric on top a good idea ?

Build it out of solid material. MDF is easy to work with and you can have nice edges on it still unlike drywall.

I put baffle wall in quotation marks, because i am not sure to put the speakers in the wall or in front of it.

I'd say in front of it for an easy build (and the fact that you might be using a few sets of speakers).

Would it hurt the sound, if i put a small showcase in the middle of the rear wall ?

Yes it will hurt the sound. Ideally you want your rear wall to absorb at much of the sound as possible so that when the sound does return to your ears, it is quieter and later in time (the velocity of sound slows down while passing through a medium with higher impedance) than if it were a solid surface. This is critical for achieving a good listening room.

Will Guitar Cabs on the rear wall function as absorbers ? By that i mean, if bass impinges on the Driver, would it act like a plate absorber ? Sure, you don´t know which frequencies it will absorb, i just curious.

I think they would increase the time domain at the center frequency of the cabinet.

Check out near the bottom of the page under Reflection from an Impedance Discontinuity: the Standing Wave Ratio:

https://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Demos/SWR/SWR.html

A quick acoustic measurement would show exactly what the cabinets are doing when they are in your room.

Greg

[Dynamex]

Hello Greg,

first things first, thank you for all the help and support and a happy new Year.

There are some things which i didn´t point out clear.
The Wall in Front of the Desk will be its own part. Which means, it will not be mounted to the floor and the slanted Wall, it will stand by itself.
As mentioned, i´m on the first floor and have to build 3 more Rooms, a Bath, a Kitchen and a Living Room. So maybe the Studio will later move to another room.

A "Problem" right now is the Desk from the first picture, as the room is right now.
I don´t know what to do with it. There is no other Room, where it could be used or stored. If it stays, where it is, it will eat up a lot of space.
The Desk is now maybe 5-6 Years old and was expensive, 500-700 bucks, from what i remember. But he is stable, huge and looks great.

My Idea for the Studio was a desk, like the black one in the first Design.
Here is an example:




It would be big enough for me, with a added Keyboard Drawer there is enough space for Keyboard, Mouse and a Faderport. If necessary, i can put my 49 Keys Midi Keyboard on top.

The Desk right now is 1,8m (5.9 feet) long and 0,8m ( 2,62 feet) wide. I could put Zaor Gripracks or Desktop Racks on top, but i´m not sure if this is the Way to go.
Puting the Racks to the left and right edge, there would be around 1,3-1,6m (4,26 - 5,25 feet) from Cone to Cone (Speaker)
But the distance Cone to Ear would only be 0,9-1,0m (2.95 - 3.28 ft), which is far far away from being good.
Some could argue, move them closer together, but then they are covering the Display.

I made new designs in Sketchup to show that. As you will see, i designed a new Front Wall. Grey is fabric/absorbing material, brown is wood board with holes.
Left and Right are angled towards the Basstraps. The red "Dot" is a knob, so you can open both sides for storage. The Wall is around 0,8m (2.62 ft) outisde from the straight wall below the slanted wall.

Quote:
Maybe, if i build the absorbers to my left and right much deeper, let´s say, 12-14", i could build a cabinet/closet for storage and on top it will carry the Absorber.

You could put a cabinet there and have your absorber on top of it. The absorber still only needs to be 4-6" thick.

Good Idea, put this in the new Design.

Quote:
What is your suggestion for the "baffle wall" ? Wood, so there is a hard wall around/in back of the speakers or absorbing materials ? Or even a combination of both, wood and absorbers ?

Without soffit wings I'm not sure you would get massive improvements by mounting the speakers in the wall. Also, your wall would have to have angled faces to mount the speakers into. Again, your design is unique. Basically, it seems that building angled walls to mount your speakers in could be tricky and somewhat ineffective. I would maybe try to tuck your wall back as far as you can while still having some storage area behind. Make the wall out of heavy material (maybe a thick sheet of OSB on framing with a layer or two of drywall or MDF on top of that. Then, put some 2'x2' panels 4" thick on the wall with the backs of your speakers right up against the 4" thick insulation. This will help with SBIR.

Good, this is also possible with the new design, at least, i hope it is.

Quote:
I don´t want to kill to many high frequencies, so if i build the "baffle wall" with absorbers, is putting a thin foil between the insulation and fabric on top a good idea ?

Build it out of solid material. MDF is easy to work with and you can have nice edges on it still unlike drywall.

Quote:
I put baffle wall in quotation marks, because i am not sure to put the speakers in the wall or in front of it.

I'd say in front of it for an easy build (and the fact that you might be using a few sets of speakers).

The new design is a combination of Wood and absorbing material, and the holes in the Wood Panels will be absorbing, too

Quote:
Would it hurt the sound, if i put a small showcase in the middle of the rear wall ?

Yes it will hurt the sound. Ideally you want your rear wall to absorb at much of the sound as possible so that when the sound does return to your ears, it is quieter and later in time (the velocity of sound slows down while passing through a medium with higher impedance) than if it were a solid surface. This is critical for achieving a good listening room.

To get this Problem out of the Way, i am thinking about 3 mobile Walls for the Back, as shown in the new Design. Maybe i will combine Absorbers and Diffusors, not sure. It will be a modular Design, so it´s possible to try and switch for best results.

And here are the new designs:

The new design for the Front Wall:


Limited Space with 2 Desks in the Room:


And the design with the table i have right now:


Way more space in the back, still with the 3 mobile walls. These could be use for Recording too, so maybe a good idea.
I was to lazy to design wheels for it, but there will be wheels.
Still using SketchUp online, the Free one won´t work, shows so license expired on start...

[Gregwor]

The new design should work!

It pains me to know that you're suffering using the online free SketchUp! Since "Make" is in fact free of charge, there shouldn't be any licensing issues... there is no license required! Maybe you got the pro version on accident. Be sure to uninstall what you've installed already and then re-download and install MAKE. It has to be Make... that's what they called their old free version that actually installs on your computer.

Here is the one I use on my recording computer:

SU Make Splash.png

Fingers crossed you can get it up and running!

Greg