Ceiling diffusor

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dymaxian
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Ceiling diffusor

Post by dymaxian »

Ok, I finally got some pictures of the ceiling I'm trying to install. It looks rough because I'm not going to paint it (I like the rough look of my place- I'll make the next studio I build look pretty) but it sure cuts down on flutter echoes and comb filtering...

The idea came from another post, either here or at recording.org, and I can't find it now. If anyone does find it, please link it here, even if just to give the guy credit for his idea.

I had a lot of leftovers and scraps from building the wall systems, so I made as many 6" wide by 24" long pieces as I could out of 3/4" OSB and 1x6 (the 1x6 has been a lot better, but I had more of the OSB scrap). Then, using a band-saw with the table set to a 30 degree angle, I cut a wave shape into it to get these...

Image

With me so far? Ok, once I had these (a LOT of these...) I used 1x2 and 1x4 as a frame to hold 12 of these together, with about 1" to 1-1/2" space between the slats, to make a 24"x24" square panel. I kept the angled faces alternating directions, and tried to keep the wave peaks from lining up. Here's the result...

Image

Now, all that remains is to hang them. I had mounted 2x2s to the ceiling, but they didn't give me enough room to attach the panels so I ended up having to double them up. But after drilling pilot holes thru the 1x4 frames, they went up real easy. I alternated the direction of the slats on each panel. Not all of the ceiling is done yet, but it's over the mix position to keep that flat drywall from shooting early reflections right at me, and it works great.

Image

My wife thinks it looks like bad dental work. My band thinks it looks like some Machiavellian torture device. All my clients think it's the strangest ceiling they've ever seen.

It takes a lot of time to put together, but it's not terrible. A lot of time with the band saw, and a lot of time screwing them together. My prime complaint about assembling them is that I used OSB, because I had a lot of it- but it's not really suited to end-fastening, even with screws, so I had to pre-drill every hole and be very careful to not split them. Many slats got thrown out. Using 2x lumber would have been easier to assemble, and would require fewer slats- I'm thinking of switching on the remainder of the ceiling. They'd just be heavier, and take a little more effort to hang up.

I'm sure QRD diffusors would be a little more effective as diffusors, but this is an awfully random surface I have here- and you'd have to be a lot more talented with a band-saw than I am to get all those waves to be identical.

I have a theory of using these on the walls, as well, especially for a rectangular room. If I were to use these on the side walls of a control room, for example, but with all of the slats oriented vertically, and with the 30 degree faces toward the back of the room, they would create the same effect as splaying the side walls 30 degrees. Even if I didn't cut the wave-shape into them, I could just run 2x4s across a table-saw with the blade angled- they wouldn't diffuse vertically, but they'd still direct sound to the rear wall and add some diffusion from the spaces between them. If I were to build the major walls inside-out style, with fiberglass blanket insulation in the stud spaces, 703 over that, and these slats over the top of that, in theory it'd be a pretty good sidewall: Sound hitting between the slats would be absorbed, and sound hitting their faces would be directed to the rear wall. It'd sure make the rest of the room easier to build. And since a lot of studio walls use wood slats of some sort, this isn't a very long step from common practice.

Just thinking out loud. Let me know what your opinions are...
Kase
www.minemusic.net

"to hell with the CD sales! Download the MP3s and come to the shows!"
brandondrury
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Post by brandondrury »

I know very little about acoustics....

but that is freakin' awesome!!

Brandon
AndrewMc
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Post by AndrewMc »

Looks pretty damn cool :D
Andrew McMaster
knightfly
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Post by knightfly »

Kase, I saw that idea too but don't remember where - one word of warning, though -
your comment "If I were to use these on the side walls of a control room, for example, but with all of the slats oriented vertically, and with the 30 degree faces toward the back of the room, they would create the same effect as splaying the side walls 30 degrees."

This is very much a wave-length dependent effect - with that short a surface skewed to 30 degrees, I don't think it would work much below maybe 2-4 kHz for 3/4" boards, maybe as low as 1K for the 2x lumber.

Not saying it wouldn't help the sound, just not as much as an actual (longer) wall section at that angle... Steve

Like the look, BTW - have you considered spraying them from 2 or 3 different angles with 2 or 3 different colors? Kinda wierd, but definitely different looking (kinda like collecting dried barf to compare its aesthetic differences...)
dymaxian
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Post by dymaxian »

This is the kind of reply I was hoping for- someone to point out troubles with it.
This is very much a wave-length dependent effect - with that short a surface skewed to 30 degrees, I don't think it would work much below maybe 2-4 kHz for 3/4" boards, maybe as low as 1K for the 2x lumber.
That's kinda what I'd figured. I wouldn't want to use 3/4" boards for the side walls, but the 2x lumber I had figured would work down to a low enough point. 1K is higher than I'd hoped for- while the low-mids between 500 and 1k would get a lot of absorption from the insulation behind these slats, it wouldn't get it all... but 4 or 5 inches of blanket and rigid insulation back there would absorb a lot of it.

Would this system create a decent room response? I mean, looking at the wall on it's own- the insulation behind the slats to absorb what doesn't get reflected to the back of the room. Would this give me a wierd sound? I wouldn't think so... pretty much everything higher than 150Hz would either get absorbed or reflected to the back of the room.

Outside the sweet spot, things would sound tinny (reflected highs but no lows), but at the same time, the sweet spot would be huge.
Like the look, BTW - have you considered spraying them from 2 or 3 different angles with 2 or 3 different colors?
Actually, what I was originally planning to do (and may yet, we'll see) was going to be to alternate the 2' square blocks in black and red, checker-board style. And then above these, I was going to put 1" rigid fiberglass panels wrapped in fabric of the opposing color. So you'd see red fabric thru the black slats, and black thru the red slats. That'd be awful trippy.
Kase
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"to hell with the CD sales! Download the MP3s and come to the shows!"
knightfly
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Post by knightfly »

"Would this system create a decent room response?" -

Good question; that's one of the pitfalls of "roll yer own wierd stuff that'll obviously do something to the sound, now how do we find out what that something is/was" school of acoustics...

Just generally, I'd think that as long as you didn't do the entire room (or maybe more than part of a wall) and (if in a CR) you kept it symmetrical, it shouldn't be a problem. The open slats and deep absorbent behind, combined with the angles and narrow surfaces, should give you pretty good low mid absorption without losing all the "sizzle" from using too much plain absorbent If in a CR, and it's got at least 10-12 feet behind the mix position (your head) I wouldn't be afraid to put these on the rear wall, maybe the top half and about 1/3 of the width, centered - you'd still need some good deep traps in rear corners though -

alternate red and black, huh? Do I smell a "king side castle" coming on??!?
dymaxian
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Post by dymaxian »

Hey Steve - I don't mean to sound like I'm arguing with you, but I got a question about your guess at the effective range of this diffusion idea that you posted above...
This is very much a wave-length dependent effect - with that short a surface skewed to 30 degrees, I don't think it would work much below maybe 2-4 kHz for 3/4" boards, maybe as low as 1K for the 2x lumber.
I thought that for diffusors, the high range was determined by the size of the faces of the diffusing elements, but the low end was determined by the depth. From what I read/understand, it'd be important to try to diffuse everything down to about 400Hz; above that, sound pretty much follows "ray" theory, but below that it ignores directionality. Is the depth of the diffusor equal to 1/4 the wavelength of it's low effective range? If so, the diffusor should be at least 8". If I cut these baffles out of 2x10s or 2x12s, they should meet that pretty easily.

Or I could be all wrong. As you mentioned before, the only way to know is to build a bunch and get 'em tested.

BTW I have another related question on diffusor depth that I'll post in the Acoustics forum- if you get a minute, take a look and see what you think. I know you're busy, tho. ;)
Kase
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"to hell with the CD sales! Download the MP3s and come to the shows!"
dymaxian
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Post by dymaxian »

Here's an update on the diffusor construction...

Remember what I said about 2x lumber possibly making it easier to build these? I was right. Even the math works out better- 10 baffles, each 1-1/2" wide, with a 1" space between, works out to precisely 24". And since I'm end-screwing 2x lumber instead of 1x, which is actually 3/4" thick, there's a lot less splitting happening. They're a little heavier, obviously, but it's going a lot better this way.

So yeah- if you're going to do this, use 2x6 or 2x8.
Kase
www.minemusic.net

"to hell with the CD sales! Download the MP3s and come to the shows!"
jazzmania
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Post by jazzmania »

For a different look but still semi-DIY, there are these, in kit form for $120 for 8 square feet:

Image

http://www.decware.com/p1324.htm

Lee
giles117
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Post by giles117 »

Looks nice, I am starting this new build might use those in the back of the CR as it is 23' deep
Bryan Giles

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