Ideas on construction...

timothyclee · Post by **timothyclee** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:22 am

Started construction on my studio this past couple of weeks in Peoria, IL USA. So far I've just been consentrating on the outside work so that in a couple of weeks when it gets real cold I can focus on the inside. The space is my double car garage which is extra deep and it has walls made of 2x4 studs attached to concrete blocks on the bottom. Concrete foundation and a roof height at its peak at 14'. I am planning to build the room within a room, or in this case several rooms within a room. Since the existing stucture is almost gutted out how should I work with the existing structure. Insulate and drywall it and then build my internal frame, or can I use the existing framing for anything? I plan on having a control room, drum tracking room/live room, and a vocal booth. Plus a storage room to store my live drum rig. The entrance to the room is through a breezeway connecting my house to the garage. I've had the garage door framed in and the existing windows are being framed in as we speak. Thanks for any suggestions. I've posted some pictures for a more visual idea.

timothyclee · Post by **timothyclee** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:23 am

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timothyclee · Post by **timothyclee** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:23 am

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timothyclee · Post by **timothyclee** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:24 am

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timothyclee · Post by **timothyclee** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:24 am

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Hummarstra · Post by **Hummarstra** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:14 am

I'm a total newbie here, but it safe to say that there are several threads on garage studio construction here and that have discussed your exact issue of what to do with the outer "leaf" ( the existing walls of your garage.) Click the search link above and type in the words "garage" and "studio" and read away.

timothyclee · Post by **timothyclee** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:00 pm

O.K I've searched for garage studios and have read tons of information that seems quite confusing. From what I've gathered If I drywall the existing studs in the garage and then build a new wall inside of the existing walls I'll be creating a triple leaf wall?? Which is not good...My initial idea was to insulate and drywall the entire existing walls and use massive amounts of caulk, and then build the new walls inside the existing structure. Is this in the right direction??

Thanks for your time forum!

Tim

AVare · Post by **AVare** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:24 pm

If I drywall the existing studs in the garage and then build a new wall inside of the existing walls I'll be creating a triple leaf wall?? Which is not good

Correct. If you want to do anything with the outer wall, then add gypsum between the studs.

Isolated;
Andre

timothyclee · Post by **timothyclee** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:08 pm

So I add Gypsum in between the studs...how many layers...I assume I caulk all the gaps to make a tight seal.

Thanks for your time.

Tim

ponkass · Post by **ponkass** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:47 pm

as many layers of gypsum you can afford... the more the better..=) And caulk as much you can ...

AVare · Post by **AVare** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:13 am

timothyclee wrote:So I add Gypsum in between the studs...how many layers...I assume I caulk all the gaps to make a tight seal.

Hi Tim:

It is rather meaningless to give direction on how many layers to put in because we have absolutely no idea of what your sound isolation needs/goals are. The feeling I get is that that you "constructing" as opposed "designing" it.

Using that concept, put the same amount of layers of gypsum in between the studs as you were planning to put on the studs.

It hasn't come up in this thread. The weak links will become the window(s) and garage door.

Short of doing a sound level study, no realistically detailed answer can be given.

(Thanks to z60611 for the badge and motto)

Seal everything, no triple leaf!

timothyclee · Post by **timothyclee** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:58 am

Thanks for the advise. I've taken out all the windows and framed in my garage door. I'm now in the processes of taking off the Garage door track and hardware. I'm residing the outside of the garage so from the outside it will look right. I know there are so many variables that it's hard to make up your mind on what to do, but I guess you finally have to tear in and go for it. I make most of my musical income as a drummer, so my live room will have to be reasonably soundproof. Thanks again for the tips.

Tim

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:16 pm

Tim, so far I've not seen any bad advice to you - for drums, you definitely want two, and ONLY two, centers of mass between you and the rest of the world - these centers of mass, referred to here as LEAVES, need to be heavy, damped with insulation, and as far apart as you can spare the space for - these are the things that improve Transmission Loss in a building. This is true for ceilings, walls, floors, doors, windows, ANY barrier in ANY direction from/to the sound source.

For your outer wall leaf, the heavier siding you use the better - gypsum wallboard won't work well for racking strength if you were to put it under your outside siding, but you can improve the mass of that outer leaf by putting separate "inserts" of gypsum between your studs and fastening them along the edges with glue and cleats, then caulking - this raises the mass of that outer leaf, without weakening the wall's mechanical strength.

Then, leave as much distance as possible (12 inches isn't overkill for drums) and build your inner frame - fill all the area between inner and outer leaves with insulation if you can afford it - if not, using 3 to 4 PCF mineral wool batts between the inside frame studs is good.

If you build your inner frames flat on the floor, you can fasten lath across the studs before you raise the frames - this will keep the mineral wool batts from moving away from the surface of the wallboard that will go on the inside of the inner frame, and that will help damp the panels so they don't ring.

Hopefully this lessens the confusion - if not, don't give up - we'll all help you as we can, and make sure you get it right the first time... Steve

timothyclee · Post by **timothyclee** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:37 am

Thanks for these tips...the tip about "you can fasten lath across the studs before you raise the frames " This was something I was wondering about all along. All the talk about the leaves being as far apart as possible, but I didn't understand how everyone was keeping their insulation against the leaves without falling into that wide airspace. As far as my siding I'm taking your advise on "inserts of gypsum" in between the studs. My outer leaf is just some sort of wallboard with Wood siding attached. After I framed in the garage door and windows I re-sided the whole thing this vinyl siding right over the existing wood siding. I hope this wasn't a mistake, I had thought of removing the old wood siding, but the weather here is starting to get cold and if I can get the outside finished by winter, I can spend all winter inside with a portable heater.

Thanks for your time!!
Tim Lee

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:05 am

Putting the vinyl siding over the wood isn't ideal for sound isolation, but shouldn't hurt things too bad - and you need something weatherproof that can still breathe, sometimes longevity has to take precedence over acoustics. If you can add a couple layers of gypsum without any air gaps between any of the layers (you could probably search on the word "cleat" and get the main ones I've posted) - this would improve the mass of your outer leaf quite a bit.

On the insulation - if you can afford it, the entire gap between leaves should be filled with insulation - if this is done, there's little chance of things sagging because there's noplace for them to go. However, the lath across the inner face of the stud frame wouldnt hurt even if you DO put more insulation between the lath and your outer wall.

May your thumb only come in contact with your hammer while it's wrapped around the handle... Steve

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