40 kg/m3 and 70kg/m3 rockwool for floating floor

Paul Woodlock · Post by **Paul Woodlock** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:06 am

hugo_inside wrote:Thanks Rod,

The building method if I fill with sand is the same, is not? EPDM rubber pucks under joists, fill the gaps with sand, cover sand with plastic to avoid dampen, drill to joists the particleboard boards (2º layer turned 90º to avoid joints) ......

Greetings Hugo.

The EPDM at that thickness really isnt' going to do anything. your original floro design is not good. Sorry.

You're really better to NOT float, and use the concrete floor instead.

If you MUST have floor joists, then do not put them on rubber, but fill them with sand as Rod suggests. but you MUST make sure the sand touches the top floor to avoid it resonanting.

I would advise you don't bother with anything and just use the concrete. If you want to run cables in the floor, then put down a layer of 18mm MDF and route channels for cables into that.

Paul

Julián Fernández · Post by **Julián Fernández** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:38 am

Great thread so far... I wanna use a similar approach to float my floor. (Basically the one in Sae site).
My studio will be on my house terrace, and my sister bedroom will be under it... (is that clear?)... So, i wanna float my floor to stop some low frecuencies and to avoid any contact between my studio and my sister bedroom ceiling.
I wanna use Mason Neoprene pads (duro 50), 2x5 studs and mdf on top...
I would like to hear ideas (or read a thread if i missed it) for a studio on top of a house...
Thanks in advance guys!

hugo_inside · Post by **hugo_inside** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:08 am

Thanks Paul but ...

My floating floor desing is only good for runing wires under it??

This kind of floors doesn't work?

There will be no problems with cars and tracks runing in the street? no problem with bands when they rehears???

Wiring must run behind the walls? I don't understand the MDF board for runing wires.

Do you have a pic or draw??

Paul Woodlock · Post by **Paul Woodlock** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:46 am

hugo_inside wrote:Thanks Paul but ...

My floating floor desing is only good for runing wires under it?? This kind of floors doesn't work?

The design you've got is too lightweight to make any difference worth the effort. Plus the rubber is too thin.

You MUST calculate the resonant freqeuncy for flaoting floors, and make sure it is at least 2 to 4 octaves BELOW the lowest freqeuncy you what to isolate. A lightweight floating floro wont' achieve this, and furthermore a lightweight floatign floor is very sensitive to extr alive loads placed up on it, as well as potentialyl creating a huge drum skin in the room.

Please read the links I gave earlier in this thread, and look at other floating floor links at Studiotips or The RO Forum.

This link gives an excellent primer in floating floor design....http://www.earsc.com/HOME/engineering/T ... asp?SID=61

Wiring must run behind the walls? I don't understand the MDF board for runing wires. Do you have a pic or draw??

With 18mm MDF you can route channels in it ( with a 6mm cover ). See my Studio Build Diary http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=107 for piccies and info

It's very useful for runnign cables in the floor to get to workstation desks etc.

Paul

hugo_inside · Post by **hugo_inside** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:51 am

This is what you say, is not?

But, what's the difference between using MDF and attach direct to the wall?

I'm thinking of a new design for my studio floor... If I float only the recording room with 2 plies of 18 mm EPDM (36 mm ) directly on the concrete floor and cover, like your floor, with rockwool and then 2 o 3 plies of particleboard over it? (:? but what is the way to attach the boards? glue?)

So, tomorrow I try to ask my mason friend for a concrete floor like your floor.

[/img]

Paul Woodlock · Post by **Paul Woodlock** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:34 am

hugo_inside wrote:This is what you say, is not?

No that's not what I'm saying. Further on in the diary you'll see where I've routed channels into the FLOOR.

But, what's the difference between using MDF and attach direct to the wall?

Speaking of walls, I in fact also put a layer of 18mm on the walls and ceiling as the last but one layer. this allows to attach anything to anywhere. Very useful.

I'm thinking of a new design for my studio floor... If I float only the recording room with 2 plies of 18 mm EPDM (36 mm ) directly on the concrete floor and cover, like your floor, with rockwool and then 2 o 3 plies of particleboard over it? (:? but what is the way to attach the boards? glue?)

36mm rubber is much better, but the IMPORTANT THING is to calculate the Resonant Freqeuncy of the system.

2 or 3 layers of particle board directly on top of the rubber won'tbe heavy enough. And will act like a big drum skin.

My floor was as follows from lowest to highest layer....

1] Concrete SUBFLOOR

2] Elastomer Blocks ( SYlomer ) glued to concrete ( special glue )with rockwool in between to damp any resonances

3] 18mm waterproofed Plywood glued to Elastomer blocks( To hold concrete ) while wet.

4] 125mm Concrete Floating Floor ( steel reinforced )

6] 18mm Layer of MDF Screwed and glued to concrete ( I sealed the concrete with PVA glue solution first )

7] Top floor finish

So, tomorrow I try to ask my mason friend for a concrete floor like your floor. [/img]

Cool. you MUST however do the calculations for the resonant freqeuncy otherwise you will 99% certain make a very expensive mistake.

Paul

hugo_inside · Post by **hugo_inside** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:49 am

Cool. you MUST however do the calculations for the resonant freqeuncy otherwise you will 99% certain make a very expensive mistake.

How can I do this calculations??

Paul Woodlock · Post by **Paul Woodlock** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:57 am

hugo_inside wrote:
Cool. you MUST however do the calculations for the resonant freqeuncy otherwise you will 99% certain make a very expensive mistake.
How can I do this calculations??

The earsc.com link I gave you 2 posts ago has the info

hugo_inside · Post by **hugo_inside** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:02 am

oks. I read this info tonight. Thanks!

Julián Fernández · Post by **Julián Fernández** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:37 am

Paul, what do you think about my situation? (posted in this thread)
Any idea? Thanks!

Paul Woodlock · Post by **Paul Woodlock** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:14 am

Julián Fernández wrote:Paul, what do you think about my situation? (posted in this thread)
Any idea? Thanks!

I really think you not going to be able to build a flaoting floor heavy enough and with a low enough resonant freqeuncy in order to stop any bass.

Not without SERIOUSLY uprating the original structure.

I'm sure you're poor sister doesn't want tons of studio crushing her to death.

If you swapped rooms so you have the bedroom as the studio ,and build a bedroom above for her, you'll stand a much better chance!

Paul

hugo_inside · Post by **hugo_inside** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:51 pm

Hi!

Last night I read the E.A.R document. But they say I need a "nomogram" to calculate the dynamic modulus(E)??

Do you know where can I find this factor for 36 mm of EPDM shore 65?

Julián Fernández · Post by **Julián Fernández** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:08 am

I really think you not going to be able to build a flaoting floor heavy enough and with a low enough resonant freqeuncy in order to stop any bass.

Not without SERIOUSLY uprating the original structure.

I'm sure you're poor sister doesn't want tons of studio crushing her to death. Wink

If you swapped rooms so you have the bedroom as the studio ,and build a bedroom above for her, you'll stand a much better chance!

Paul

Thanks Paul! I can not swap rooms with my sister... that´s no really a choice. I have to make the best i can (and i can afford) to try to stop sound as much as possible...
Can you give me some advice to achieve the best floated floor?
btw, the original roof of my room was sloped, to solve it i added a cement layer to it... at least it´s a little more mass...

the dreamer · Post by **the dreamer** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:45 am

Hi!

Last night I read the E.A.R document. But they say I need a "nomogram" to calculate the dynamic modulus(E)??

Do you know where can I find this factor for 36 mm of EPDM shore 65?

Hugo, read my thread, I had exactly the same problem with data for EPDM. I discussed my project with Eric and Paul. Eric explained the DIY method to float floors with EPDM.
(I think I already explained that stuff to you and gave you links...

)

http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=1586

Florian

hugo_inside · Post by **hugo_inside** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:10 pm

Thanks Florian,

But you finally choose Sylomer instead of EPDM? No answer for EPDM "K" factor?

What happens with the SAE site floating floor method? I'm experienced with 2 of my rehearsal rooms. If atenuation material between joist has not enough density, floor resonance raises when play bass or distort guitar continuosly at 200 Hz aprox.

I explain my problem to you all:

A trash metal band rehears on a resonance floor at 200 Hz. Maybe is still so long. But they say it sounds like a BALL of sound.

What are the posible solutions??

1.- Take out the top of the floors and fill it with sand?
2.- Cover all the wall with absorvers?
3.- Take out the floor , and leave concrete floor?