Trying to beef up outer leaf, 2 questions
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knightfly
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Nathan, can you take a pic from a different angle in your roof area, so I can see the complete geometric design of your trusses? Also, am I seeing 2x4 rafters and chords with 2x6 ceiling joists (and if so, are they on 24" centers), and what's your roof itself? 5/8 plywood with composition shingles, or??!? Plus, what's the total span of each truss between supports? Thanks... Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...
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Nathan
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- Location: Tucson, Arizona
Hi Steve,
I hope this is clear.
The rafters and chords are 2x4 and have s-dry stamped on them, the joists are 2x6s and also have s-dry stamped on them. The trusses are on 24" centers. The span of the trusses from the outside edges is 20', they sit on 2x4 stud walls at each end with no supports in between.
The roof sheathing is mostly partical board with some regular plywood at the edges, and composition shingles outside. The 1st photo is the roof sheathing, is 16/32inch just 1/2"? Sorry I can't get the thickness without pulling it off, I hope the markings tell you what you need to know.
The 2nd photo is 1/2 of the trusses. The bottom has a 6' space between the chords where there is currently a particle board floor creatign an attic space. I'm planning to pull that out...are the trusses relying on that for any of their strength?
I hope this is clear.
The rafters and chords are 2x4 and have s-dry stamped on them, the joists are 2x6s and also have s-dry stamped on them. The trusses are on 24" centers. The span of the trusses from the outside edges is 20', they sit on 2x4 stud walls at each end with no supports in between.
The roof sheathing is mostly partical board with some regular plywood at the edges, and composition shingles outside. The 1st photo is the roof sheathing, is 16/32inch just 1/2"? Sorry I can't get the thickness without pulling it off, I hope the markings tell you what you need to know.
The 2nd photo is 1/2 of the trusses. The bottom has a 6' space between the chords where there is currently a particle board floor creatign an attic space. I'm planning to pull that out...are the trusses relying on that for any of their strength?
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sharward
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Nathan
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- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:20 am
- Location: Tucson, Arizona
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Nathan
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:20 am
- Location: Tucson, Arizona
Hi Guys,
I'm wondering what ya'll think about putting 2 layers of drywall up on the ceiling screwed in to the plywood between the tops of the trusses (rafters?).
Mainly I'm concerned about it holding the weight of the drywall but also there are some nails sticking through from the roofing. Should I just let the drywall screws "pull" the drywall into the roofing nails so that they sink into the drywall on the inside? Doesn't seem any worse than having the screws in there, but maybe I'm mistaken...I could cut the nails flush w/the roof but I don't know if it matters.
I'm wondering what ya'll think about putting 2 layers of drywall up on the ceiling screwed in to the plywood between the tops of the trusses (rafters?).
Mainly I'm concerned about it holding the weight of the drywall but also there are some nails sticking through from the roofing. Should I just let the drywall screws "pull" the drywall into the roofing nails so that they sink into the drywall on the inside? Doesn't seem any worse than having the screws in there, but maybe I'm mistaken...I could cut the nails flush w/the roof but I don't know if it matters.
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sharward
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knightfly
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I'm not at all familiar with that particular truss design, and am a bit concerned with the lack of triangulation in spots - just doesn't seem very robust to me. Any chance of you finding the actual specs from the truss company or GC?
Also, even if you CAN get away with the extra weight, it's not likely you'd be able to pull the drywall up snug enough against the plywood with nails sticking out to eliminate somewhat of an air gap between plywood and drywall; I'm with Keithers on this.
First, you REALLY need to find out more about your particular trusses though; this is one of those "black art" areas where nobody wants to tell you much, I've yet to find any kind of software for under $1000 that will help either. You need either the GC, the truss company, or a PE to verify load capacity before you do anything... Steve
Also, even if you CAN get away with the extra weight, it's not likely you'd be able to pull the drywall up snug enough against the plywood with nails sticking out to eliminate somewhat of an air gap between plywood and drywall; I'm with Keithers on this.
First, you REALLY need to find out more about your particular trusses though; this is one of those "black art" areas where nobody wants to tell you much, I've yet to find any kind of software for under $1000 that will help either. You need either the GC, the truss company, or a PE to verify load capacity before you do anything... Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...
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Nathan
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:20 am
- Location: Tucson, Arizona
Hi,
Don't think this is helpful to me but this page seems cool.
http://www.martindalecenter.com/Calculators4_6_Civ.html
Don't think this is helpful to me but this page seems cool.
http://www.martindalecenter.com/Calculators4_6_Civ.html
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knightfly
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OK, you still need to ask around about who built the garage to see what info you can find about the truss strength; just gut feel/half-ass math tells me you could add a couple layers of gyp inserts up against the roof sheathing, and (to save ceiling height) a couple more on RC directly on your 2x6 horizontal chords (ceiling joists) and not exceed load capacity;
IF this is true (and you STILL need to find a professional to verify this) that plan would give you the 2 leaves of mass you need for best isolation with minimum material (insulation too, of course)
Getting back to one of your very FIRST questions -
My second question is regarding the corners where the studs meet. It seems there is an airspace in the corner. Do I just try to caulk inside them or do I pull out one of the studs and add drywall or mud? (see pic on first page of this thread)
This may sound confusing since I'm looking at it in conjunction with a different recommendation for your overall plan, but bear with me -
First I'd cut a 2x2 to fill out that corner, and "butter" it with caulk and screw it in place with long, skinny deck screws sunk flush - fasten it to both walls' stud faces so it's solid and hermetically sealed. (2x lumber is approximately equivalent to 2 layers of 1/2" drywall in mass)
Next, I would drywall just that corner to beef up the joint so it's not a weak spot in the outer leaf. I'll post a rough sketch of what I mean...
Drawing...
Drawing.....
Drawing.........
Finally - outa time for now, HTH... Steve
IF this is true (and you STILL need to find a professional to verify this) that plan would give you the 2 leaves of mass you need for best isolation with minimum material (insulation too, of course)
Getting back to one of your very FIRST questions -
My second question is regarding the corners where the studs meet. It seems there is an airspace in the corner. Do I just try to caulk inside them or do I pull out one of the studs and add drywall or mud? (see pic on first page of this thread)
This may sound confusing since I'm looking at it in conjunction with a different recommendation for your overall plan, but bear with me -
First I'd cut a 2x2 to fill out that corner, and "butter" it with caulk and screw it in place with long, skinny deck screws sunk flush - fasten it to both walls' stud faces so it's solid and hermetically sealed. (2x lumber is approximately equivalent to 2 layers of 1/2" drywall in mass)
Next, I would drywall just that corner to beef up the joint so it's not a weak spot in the outer leaf. I'll post a rough sketch of what I mean...
Drawing...
Drawing.....
Drawing.........
Finally - outa time for now, HTH... Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...
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Nathan
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:20 am
- Location: Tucson, Arizona
Hi Steve,
Thanks alot for the drawing, that really helps. Just out of curiosity, if I were to drywall normally on the inside of the studs (of the outside wall), how much would I need to "vent" the siding to minimize the extra leaf.
It is one layer of masonite type thin siding and you are correct, it isn't sealed. There are air gaps at the top and bottom, some pretty wide (like 1 inch). On one side there are some holes through the siding. It is not getting wet from these gaps. Could I somehow add additional vents on the outside of the siding?
Also I'm a bit confused on adding drywall to the bottom of the joists. I will have new walls with their own ceiling in the isolation area; won't that create 3 leaves?
Nathan
Thanks alot for the drawing, that really helps. Just out of curiosity, if I were to drywall normally on the inside of the studs (of the outside wall), how much would I need to "vent" the siding to minimize the extra leaf.
It is one layer of masonite type thin siding and you are correct, it isn't sealed. There are air gaps at the top and bottom, some pretty wide (like 1 inch). On one side there are some holes through the siding. It is not getting wet from these gaps. Could I somehow add additional vents on the outside of the siding?
Also I'm a bit confused on adding drywall to the bottom of the joists. I will have new walls with their own ceiling in the isolation area; won't that create 3 leaves?
Nathan
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sharward
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I wonder if that "wrap-around the corner" drywall and caulking is really necessary, given this question and the answers given... 
I mean, it surely wouldn't hurt any... But... well... you know.
--Keith
I mean, it surely wouldn't hurt any... But... well... you know.
--Keith
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Nathan
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:20 am
- Location: Tucson, Arizona
Hey guys,
I've been busy putting this together and I wanted to share my results and ask a few questions.
I decided to just add my two layers of 5/8 sheetrock directly to the bottom of my trusses and all walls and live with the ceiling height. I added those, very carefully left a 1/4 inch gap at all edges and caulked/taped/mud/sanded each layer before
continuing.
I have framed in approximately an 11x16 iso room in one half of the garage and insulated all walls with slightly overstuffed r25 which was 8" thick (about .5 to 1" thicker than the gap between my leaves).
Even without all of the drywall finished in my iso room, it is incredibly quiet outside; I had my girlfriend hitting her VERY loud DW snare last night and I literally could not hear it 10ft away. I am a bit blown away with the results...we'll se what happens with a full kit or band.
I'm expecting it to get better once the second layer of drywall goes up in the isolation room, right now it is basically only completed against the two walls facing the outside world.
My question is regarding how to finish the walls of the iso room facing my control room, which is part of the air space that wraps around the iso room. Should I try to seal them all the way to the ceiling so that there is more spring to the air between my leaves that are against the outside wall, or is it still considered a spring but just a long one (better?) if it is more open to the control room. The control room is about 12.5 ft wide, so I am a bit unsure if this is still considered part of the spring or if the volume is enough that it is venting my 6" airgap.
Hope that isn't too confusing...in the picture the room on the left is the isolation room, the air gap at the top of it is now a 3.5 ft wide hallway that opens into the control room, just drag the top iso wall down until it is lined up with the back of the couch, the hallway side of this wall will not be drywalled.
I've been busy putting this together and I wanted to share my results and ask a few questions.
I decided to just add my two layers of 5/8 sheetrock directly to the bottom of my trusses and all walls and live with the ceiling height. I added those, very carefully left a 1/4 inch gap at all edges and caulked/taped/mud/sanded each layer before
continuing.
I have framed in approximately an 11x16 iso room in one half of the garage and insulated all walls with slightly overstuffed r25 which was 8" thick (about .5 to 1" thicker than the gap between my leaves).
Even without all of the drywall finished in my iso room, it is incredibly quiet outside; I had my girlfriend hitting her VERY loud DW snare last night and I literally could not hear it 10ft away. I am a bit blown away with the results...we'll se what happens with a full kit or band.
I'm expecting it to get better once the second layer of drywall goes up in the isolation room, right now it is basically only completed against the two walls facing the outside world.
My question is regarding how to finish the walls of the iso room facing my control room, which is part of the air space that wraps around the iso room. Should I try to seal them all the way to the ceiling so that there is more spring to the air between my leaves that are against the outside wall, or is it still considered a spring but just a long one (better?) if it is more open to the control room. The control room is about 12.5 ft wide, so I am a bit unsure if this is still considered part of the spring or if the volume is enough that it is venting my 6" airgap.
Hope that isn't too confusing...in the picture the room on the left is the isolation room, the air gap at the top of it is now a 3.5 ft wide hallway that opens into the control room, just drag the top iso wall down until it is lined up with the back of the couch, the hallway side of this wall will not be drywalled.