Hi! I'm new around here, and have been lurking for a couple days, scavenging for ideas.
I started a studio project six weeks ago. Basically it involved gutting the existing space completely and starting from scratch. For pictures and history, you can visit my website. The space is directly adjacent to my buddy's studio.
I am at the point where I was hoping to be finished, but there are still some serious isolation issues on our shared walls. I think another layer of drywall (or 2) would probably provide enough isolation for everything but drums -- but I want to be sure.
My question now is what is the best thing I can do on top of the existing wall - with less than $300. I have enough drywall left over to do 2 more layers, and I was thinking about purchasing some Green Glue. We're talking about roughly 240 square feet of wall here.
Here are some pics to give you a general idea of the construction methods.
wall (side view)
celing
Any input would we greatly appreciated. Thanks!
help with isolation issues
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Cold Bones
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:41 pm
- Location: Chicago Suburbs
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knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
Kinda short on time ATM, hopefully you've found this
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3231
If you follow ALL the bolded points in that, it will explain some of the reasons you're still having isolation problems. For example, you have a LOT of shared structure between the two rooms and apparently a common floor and ceiling cavity? Your neighbor's ceiling is crap, celotex has very little mass by itself and isn't worth the money IMO - better and cheaper to use an additional layer of gypsum.
Things that help isolation are mass and air space; insulation is included as air space, and the most efficient (by far) use of material is to make the walls between two spaces consist of two centers of mass separated by one air space, like you have in your wall between studios. This needs to continue all the way around the spaces - any direction a sound tries to go, it needs to encounter mass.air.mass before it gets to the other space.
More mass is better
Wider air space is better
having multiple air spaces SUCKS - all this does is to create audible resonances, at which frequency the wall will be weak.
Your ceiling is such a construction; if you analyze the path from your ceiling to your neighbor's ceiling, you have a narrow air space between two mediocre masses, then the air space in the attic, then a wimpy Celotex layer and your neighbor's space.
The ceilng on your side has a resonance at around 192 hZ, caused by the mass-air-mass combination of 3/4" air gap between two 5/8" gypsum layers - in addition, those 1x2's aren't resilient so you have hard coupling through your entire ceiling - the celotex on your neighbor's side is slightly flexible, but next to worthless as far as mass goes; it's just enough to make a marginal ceiling (your side) even WORSE by creating a triple leaf effect.
Your floors look to be about as bad; common framing, no resilient mounts, maybe slightly higher than average mass, but the common structure will flank a LOT of stuff between the rooms.
I'm not sure what else to say; while you're correct in saying that more sheet rock would help, it won't be a lot; you have to DOUBLE the mass on BOTH leaves of a proper wall to improve the TL by around 5 or 6 dB.
I hate to have to say this, but you would get a LOT better results by removing your ceiling and starting over.
IF that's not an option, and you only need a LITTLE more isolation, and your ceiling framing can stand the weight, then 2 more layers of sheet rock will help. Just not a huge amount... Steve
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3231
If you follow ALL the bolded points in that, it will explain some of the reasons you're still having isolation problems. For example, you have a LOT of shared structure between the two rooms and apparently a common floor and ceiling cavity? Your neighbor's ceiling is crap, celotex has very little mass by itself and isn't worth the money IMO - better and cheaper to use an additional layer of gypsum.
Things that help isolation are mass and air space; insulation is included as air space, and the most efficient (by far) use of material is to make the walls between two spaces consist of two centers of mass separated by one air space, like you have in your wall between studios. This needs to continue all the way around the spaces - any direction a sound tries to go, it needs to encounter mass.air.mass before it gets to the other space.
More mass is better
Wider air space is better
having multiple air spaces SUCKS - all this does is to create audible resonances, at which frequency the wall will be weak.
Your ceiling is such a construction; if you analyze the path from your ceiling to your neighbor's ceiling, you have a narrow air space between two mediocre masses, then the air space in the attic, then a wimpy Celotex layer and your neighbor's space.
The ceilng on your side has a resonance at around 192 hZ, caused by the mass-air-mass combination of 3/4" air gap between two 5/8" gypsum layers - in addition, those 1x2's aren't resilient so you have hard coupling through your entire ceiling - the celotex on your neighbor's side is slightly flexible, but next to worthless as far as mass goes; it's just enough to make a marginal ceiling (your side) even WORSE by creating a triple leaf effect.
Your floors look to be about as bad; common framing, no resilient mounts, maybe slightly higher than average mass, but the common structure will flank a LOT of stuff between the rooms.
I'm not sure what else to say; while you're correct in saying that more sheet rock would help, it won't be a lot; you have to DOUBLE the mass on BOTH leaves of a proper wall to improve the TL by around 5 or 6 dB.
I hate to have to say this, but you would get a LOT better results by removing your ceiling and starting over.
IF that's not an option, and you only need a LITTLE more isolation, and your ceiling framing can stand the weight, then 2 more layers of sheet rock will help. Just not a huge amount... Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...
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Cold Bones
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:41 pm
- Location: Chicago Suburbs
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knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
Sorry for the delay; as I mentioned, the "mass-air-mass" barrier between you and your friend's studio is made up of each of your ceiling layers, plus the insulation/air which sound must travel through between those two barriers; - your side is already a double leaf, but with a too-narrow air space. Your neighbor's side is apparently just flimsy Celotex, which has about HALF the density of gypsum.
IF your neighbor wont/cant beef up HIS side of the ceiling, you will need to make up for that on YOUR side; the good news is that the air gap is fairly wide, so will help the m-a-m equation.
If you were to remove both layers of wallboard from your ceiling, and if your framing is strong enough, put up RSIC clips and hat channel and THREE layers of gypsum, that mass and the long air path should compensate quite a bit for your neighbor's flimsy excuse for a ceiling.
Next would be the common floor; any chance you could get UNDER the floor and cut it between rooms? Steve
IF your neighbor wont/cant beef up HIS side of the ceiling, you will need to make up for that on YOUR side; the good news is that the air gap is fairly wide, so will help the m-a-m equation.
If you were to remove both layers of wallboard from your ceiling, and if your framing is strong enough, put up RSIC clips and hat channel and THREE layers of gypsum, that mass and the long air path should compensate quite a bit for your neighbor's flimsy excuse for a ceiling.
Next would be the common floor; any chance you could get UNDER the floor and cut it between rooms? Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...