A different twist- cheap, better-than-crappy.

Jon Best · Post by **Jon Best** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:24 pm

Well, I'm selling off most of the studio and relegating myself to mostly hobby stuff for the time being, which, believe it or not, is a positive thing at this point.

So, away go my wonderful Quested Vs3208's.

I have two pairs of speakers here that I know and trust, one pair of NHT Pro M-00's, active little 4" 2-ways, and one pair of NHT Super Ones, which are passive 6.5 2 ways, and which I think are probably the best bang for the buck I've ever heard.

But, I don't have any big ass kickers, and I have a pair of VS3208 sized holes in the wall that are just begging for something to be stuck in there. I don't need hifi, I just need big and fun and cheap. I've got an Adcom 535 and a pair of old Yamaha P2100 amps, I'm probably going to rustle up an Ashly PA crossover, and I'm looking for drivers to stick in a box. Really, I'll settle for a little better than most midline pa stuff.

Anyone have any thoughts? I'm thinking along the lines of the Junkyard Wars 'surprisingly fast dragster' of speakers.

barefoot · Post by **barefoot** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:06 am

The two Vifa drivers you mentioned in the other thread http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=695 seem like reasonable choices.

Thomas

Jon Best · Post by **Jon Best** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:41 am

Thanks. Just for a little background, I tend to come up with ideas, research them later, then realize where the weak parts are and rethink everything.

After a few evenings of reading online, and going back over the loudspeaker cookbook and the Newell studio monitor book, I'm beginning the rethinking part.

So, what's the general consensus on Madisound's crossover design deal? Worthwhile? Or would I be better off with a decent active crossover? Thoughts?

barefoot wrote:The two Vifa drivers you mentioned in the other thread http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=695 seem like reasonable choices.

Thomas

barefoot · Post by **barefoot** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:53 am

An off-the-shelf active crossover is not the way to go. Even with steep 4th order slopes, you really need about 2.5 to 3 octaves of flat overlap between the two drivers. This is almost never the case. Whether they are active or passive, you need filters that give you the proper acoustic alignment. For example, if you design your crossover to have a 4th order Linkwitz-Riley acoustic alignment, the electrical alignment will typically look very different (probably with asymmetric 2nd and 3rd order electrical slopes, neither having a simple Butterworth, Bessel, or other identifiable alignment).

I don't have much experience with Madisound's crossover service. I've heard that they do decent work. However, the few telephone conversations I've had with their designer didn't inspire much confidence. Perhaps he just isn't very articulate, but he didn't seem to know what I was talking about with regard to some rather fundamental aspects of crossover design.

How about just sticking with a well established kit design?

Thomas

Jon Best · Post by **Jon Best** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:52 pm

I suppose that probably makes the most sense, although I'm fundamentally uneasy with kits. I'm sure it's not rational.

So, where does one dig up reliable kit information?

barefoot wrote:
How about just sticking with a well established kit design?

Thomas

Eric Best · Post by **Eric Best** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:55 am

I built this one and I am very happy with it. http://www.madisound.com/solist.html

here is a picture of mine

barefoot · Post by **barefoot** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:18 am

Yeah, the Madisound kit Eric built is a good one. And notice those cool little red Killatones there.

Zalytron also has some nice kits and very well made cabinets, if you don't have the facilities to build your own. http://www.zalytron.com They feature several kits designed by Joseph D'Appolito. I'm going to post a DIY monitor in this forum that will be specifically designed for soffit mounting. But, don't expect it until early next year.

Thomas

Eric Best · Post by **Eric Best** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:25 am

And I will build those too!!!!!

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:15 am

I am reposting this...

What yah think about 1 solist, 2 cygnet Mk2 (L/R) and a pair of sledglings (rears)

NHT 10 sub?

The only Concern I have is the matching of drivers.

Bryan Giles

These are the Madisonsound designs.....
Just toying with some ideas instead of just buying the mackies.. Perheaps going proprietary. who Knows. the cost will be the decididng factor

barefoot · Post by **barefoot** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:46 am

I've never heard the Soloist, but the driver compliment is certainly excellent. However, I have heard from a few sources that the Speaker City version is a little better in crossover design and cabinetry (sorry Eric!:)) The North Creek Rhythm is really the ultimate passive implementation of these drivers as far as I'm concerned.

The Seas drivers in the Cygnet are good quality "workhorse" units (comparable to similar Vifa models). However, I am no fan of using 8" drivers in a two-way system. Even the 7" drivers in Soloist are a bit large in my view, but they make up for it a great deal by having such outstanding overall performance.

The Sledgeling and NHT 10? I really don't know if they are good values or not.

Thomas

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:19 am

Any personal recomendations for some customs for my 5.1 surround forray. Or did you just give me that in thos elinks that I clicked and hevn;t read yet. LOL

Bryan Giles

Eric Best · Post by **Eric Best** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:48 pm

Hey Thomas,

Don't be sorry, the speaker city ones are also 50% more money. With that extra $500 I'll be able to get a start on building all of the great designs that you are going to provide us with.

They are doing the job for me very well.

Bryan, if you are ever in Lansing and want to listen to the Solist's, let me know.

I'm still hoping to get a chance to meet you sometime soon.

Eric

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:56 am

Eric seein that on a good day lansing is a 45 minute drive fro me, let's pick some during the holidy if you have it available, so I can chek em out.

Bryan Giles

I'll bring some references....

Been cramming trying to get these 2 albums out and it's been a LOT of hard work.

Sheesh.. It was easier when All I did was engineer other peoples stuff, gimme 20 days, whole album mixed.

Now I am on the other side with all this little stuff to do.