Help with ... kinda wierd room :( ( w/ pics)

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AndyV
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Help with ... kinda wierd room :( ( w/ pics)

Post by AndyV »

Hey guys,

I've read the "faq" here, went through a lot of posts, but I still have issues unfortunately. I've been allowed to take a room here where I work and turn it into a "mixing studio". Primarily I will be composing (via VST's in most cases) and mixing things here, any recording will be guitars through Eleven (hardware version). So basically I kinda need to turn the room into a "control room" I suppose, so it doesn't have to be completely dull and treated like a recording room would be. All good and clean to this point, my problems actually began when I started to think about where to put acoustic treatment, how to treat it, and most importantly .. where the heck do I put my mixing desk at in relation to the room. normally it wouldn't be a problem, but the room is kinda wierd so ... pleaaaase help! Any advice will be greatly but GREATLY appreciated :-D

So .. here's a diagram of the room with measurements (both feet and centimeters). Right now the room is completely empty except a wall heating unit and air conditioner (both "artfully" depicted in the sketch :-) ).

Image

I tried to actually scale the room in terms of dimensions, ie. 1 pixel = 1 cm.

My biggest problems (oh btw, I'm a complete novice at this, so don't hit me too hard with critique, I'm trying to learn here, but no matter how much I read, I still need some "practical" hands-on experience to actually and truly learn something .. and I don't have that yet):

1. Near the door, there's a really wierd corner thing (masterfully noted as "crap built corner" in the layout).
2. The wall opposite the door, the one with the window, is curved. No, i didn't slip with the line tool when I drew the layout, the wall is actually curved.
3. Heating unit and air conditioner, as I have NO idea how to isolate them properly. How can I treat them so they won't get in the way of my mixes?
4. Where in the world would be the best spot to place my mixing desk.
5. Directly linked to #4: how should I treat the room acoustically speaking? I was thinking using rockwool based panels for the sides of the mix position, corner absorbers for the upper parts (wall-meets-ceiling), diffuser in the back of the mix position (shelves + couch + diy diffuser above the couch). Not sure about the ceiling (I'll get to that in a bit and you'll see why), the floor, and the front of the mix position (behind the monitors).

Some details about the room now:

1. Floor is made from hardwood tiles (I'm sure there's a name for that, I just don't know it) and it's pretty shiny.
2. Ceiling is fake. There's like a 2.5 meter (diameter) circle in the middle of the room, where the main light is, that's normal ceiling, and the rest around it is lowered by 15 centimeters made of plaster (I think). So .. how do I treat that? As i'm not sure it could hold any panels in place.
3. Window and door frames are made of PVC. Door leads to a small hallway.

Most importantly! I CANNOT make any major modifications to the room! Ie. whatever I put in in terms of acoustic treatment, must be able to come off easily so I can restore the room to the original layout if need be (ie. if we move or something). So I can't take off the fake ceiling and I can't make any changes to the door / window / heat unit / air conditioner.

As for my mixing position, here's another layout with my thoughts on the matter. Please feedback me if I'm doing something wrong.

Image

Originally I planned to put the mixing desk in point B. After a few considerations based on "hey people are gonna be coming in, they need space to actually come into the room" I decided to put the desk in point A.

That seemed logical enough after all my reading on the subject. Am I right?

Questions:

How do I treat:

1. Points C (corner+corner)
2. D (curved wall)
3. E (the wierd corner, on the wall with diffusors)
4. Heat unit
5. Air conditioner
6. Window (assuming I'll stick the desk in point A, do I put a curtain or something in front of the window and panel absorbers over it? or just absorbers directly on the window? or .. what? )
7. Door (since it's PVC and I can't change it). Except for ensuring a better seal when closing it what else can I do?
8. Hardwood floor. Do I put anything over it to cover it up, like a huge carpet or something? Or do I leave it blank and let it reflect as it does now? Especially considering I have no idea how to address the ceiling because..
9. Fake ceiling? Because I highly doubt it'll support a cloud (maybe it will, but since it's fake and light...)

(picking up again) How do I treat the above given that its not such a huge space (roughly 6 meters width x 4.5 meters length x 2.45 meters height) and the wierd construction of the room. (Btw, wall with air conditioner and wall with door (all the back wall) are fake walls, hollow on the inside as far as I can tell, and most likely theyre not treated in any way). And as you can imagine, since it's empty, and because of the floor and what-not, the room is currently extremely echoey :D

I hope I haven't bored anyone with this too much, I realise I wrote quite a lot here, and I'm also sure I probably left some things out. But even so .. I'd really appreciate some help on this matter as I'm still a bit in the dark :(

Many thanks for your insight, and many thanks for actually taking the time to read through this (even if you don't reply).

Cheers,
Andy

P.S. I'm based in Bucharest, Romania. Hopefully that meets all the "requierments" for this post :-s
Last edited by AndyV on Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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AndyV
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:33 pm
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Re: Help with ... kinda wierd room :( ( w/ pics)

Post by AndyV »

One more thing, because that C corner + heating unit next to it is really giving me a headache: the distance from the "bottom" part of the C corner (bottom, as you're looking at the diagram) to where the heating unit starts, there's like just 4 inches / 10 cm space with a small heating duct (almost 1 inch in diameter) coming in from the C corner parallel with the floor.

Anyone? Since I can't make any major changes to the room, I could really use your suggestions. Just .. hit me with something (preferably not anything sharp or too hard .. I bruise easily, even more preferably, some advice would be best hitting material :D ). I did find a lot of awesome and helpful posts here, and all sorts of articles on the web which were great, so I kinda have an idea to how to go about this, so I don't need too detailed info. I just need a few suggestions to my questions, at least the big picture :?

P.S. For what it's worth, I promise I'll keep a studio log with pics about what I do there including the plans for diy studio furniture and pics with traps building :D (ie. I "will" try to contribute back here)
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AndyV
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Re: Help with ... kinda wierd room :( ( w/ pics)

Post by AndyV »

Starting to think this was the wrong place to ask for help :roll:

Let me ask you just one thing: when you all started being interested in acoustics/sounds/music/diy/isolation/whatever else related, were you already all-knowing from the start? Or did you have to read about stuff, and ask people for help? If you already had all the knowledge you have now, what can I say .. kudos to you! If not, you were in the exact position I'm in.

I'm not forcing anyone to help out with an idea or two (sadly I have no iron maiden or other devices handy :D ) but I thought the purpose of a community was to help one another. So maybe you could at least tell me what I'm doing wrong with posting :) it's not like I haven't tried to follow all the "before you post" rules.

Cheers
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carsten_d
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Re: Help with ... kinda wierd room :( ( w/ pics)

Post by carsten_d »

andy,

i can understand that you are disappointed 'cause no one seems to care about you and your questions.
don't forget that this is a place where everyone can gather tons of information for free. that this
is a place where everyone can ask questions or answer questions. there are answers to all your questions
hidden in threads, spread all over this place. try to use the search function as if it is a real person!
ask the right question (assume you know the right key word) and you will definitely find the right answer!!!
i know that you know how to use a search engine. otherwise you wouldn't post a question here (i guess ;))

i don't want to sound like a teacher teaching a kiddo and i hope you get what i mean. :cop:

you said that you can't make any major changes to the room.
so you will need transportable devices. maybe something like absorber or diffusor on wheels. or something like
this -> click click (please read ahead. great stuff inside this thread)

if your ceiling is fake...what is behind it? it must be hung from somewhere with more support...???

AND -> pictures are always very VERY welcome.

you know what your room looks like. we can only assume by your description and your drawing.
here are a lot of people that are willing to help but maybe too lazy to read.

don't give up just because your 1st post is 3 days old and no one answered until now =)

hang on!

and most of all read. search. read. search. read...
keep us updated with your thoughts, ideas, plans, pictures.
sometimes it feels like you're talking all to yourself but you ain't. we are watching.

:)

i really hope that this was at least a little useful.
i wish you a wonderful weekend!

carsten
AndyV
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Re: Help with ... kinda wierd room :( ( w/ pics)

Post by AndyV »

Thanks for your reply Carsten :) if you weren't a dude I'd probably love you just for replying :D

I've actually covered about 70% of all forum posts here, I'm still at it (also been through the thread you suggested), however I couldn't find the answer to one of my major issues: my front wall!

I will make a "studio build" diary eventually like you suggested, I'm waiting for the holidays to pass to get started.

Getting back to my front wall, here are my thoughts on it, maybe someone can at least point out the most viable option:

Short version: 2 thirds of the front wall is curved outwards and 1 third is a really big and tall window (almost from floor to ceiling high). So .. knowing I can't make any changes to the room, how do I treat that wall, more explicitly the window? Options so far:

A. Cover the window with a thick carpet and add panel absorbers 4" / 10 cm thick at about 1 foot (30 cm) from the floor almost all the way up to the ceiling.

B. Leave the window as is and build some sort of frame in front of it (kinda like kendale did here http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =10&t=4091 except he didnt have a window to mask). Punch some holes in the back plate of the frame, stuff the inside of the newly built "walls" with 2" / 5 cm wool and punch little 0.5" holes in the front "plate" of the frame.

C. Not cover the window with anything and just place panel absorbers directly on it.

I'm fairly sure that neither of these is actually the perfect choice, but I just couldn't find something similar in this forum. Hence my desperate need of advice :)

Cheers!

Later edit: about the ceiling question ... I have absolutely no idea what's behind it, or how it was build, and I also have nobody to ask :( I'll try to snap a few pics on monday and post them)
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xSpace
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Re: Help with ... kinda wierd room :( ( w/ pics)

Post by xSpace »

And when searching, look specifically for "reflection free zone" or "RFZ", "control room diffusion", "first reflection points" and "early reflections".

These are the items that you are going to be dealing with since you cannot alter the environment structurally.

Good Luck,

Brien

And...
AndyV
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:33 pm
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Re: Help with ... kinda wierd room :( ( w/ pics)

Post by AndyV »

Thanks Brien, I have a huge doc file with all sorts of info :D . I'm still undecided what to do with that window tho' that's kinda the only thing left before I start calculating for materials needed. Still dunno whether to cover it with a thick carpet/cloth/whatever, whether to use panel absorbers directly to the window or whether to build a sort of frame and to leave a gap between the absorbers and the window.

Oh .. and I gotta start looking for a way to "cover" somehow my wall heater. Hopefully something will come up at search on this forum :D (didn't get to that yet).

P.S. In terms of the "fabled" Owens Corning 703. I can't get that here, however I found something similar with the same density. Is there anything else I need to look for except for density when trying to find a suitable replacement? (I tried to search here, but I ended up with way too many results and not really relevant, although I might've not used the proper search words :| )

Later edit: uhm .. except for isolation of boiler rooms and water heaters I didn't actually find anything too relevant to my wall heating unit. I'd like to "trap" it somehow, to keep it from bouncing any sound waves around (it's made of aluminum I think). I don't really need the heat from it, I just want to isolate it somehow. What's the best way to go around? Build a gypsum enclosure around it and a symmetrical enclosure on the opposite wall to keep the room symmetrical?
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xSpace
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Re: Help with ... kinda wierd room :( ( w/ pics)

Post by xSpace »

AndyV wrote:Thanks Brien, I have a huge doc file with all sorts of info ...
P.S. In terms of the "fabled" Owens Corning 703. I can't get that here, however I found something similar with the same density. Is there anything else I need to look for except for density when trying to find a suitable replacement? (I tried to search here, but I ended up with way too many results and not really relevant, although I might've not used the proper search words :| )
Fabrics & Rockwool Question
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 31&start=0

I bet you do not have this one, and we all need to re-look into this one on occasion.
AndyV
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:33 pm
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Re: Help with ... kinda wierd room :( ( w/ pics)

Post by AndyV »

Nope, didnt have that one. Got something out of it, thanks man :)

Managed to take a photo of the room (it's made with my mobile phone's camera so ... yea, quality bites, but shows where I wanna put my desk, the heater, the air conditioner, window, curved wall in front and the fake ceiling).

Later edit: found some mineral wool plates, 10cm / 4", and really really cheap. Based on what I've been reading on this subject I assume the specs make it work for some absorber panels. Right?

Abs. coefficients
125 Hz (0.6)
250 Hz (0.9)
500 Hz - 4000 Hz (1.0)
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