1st post so go easy on me.
I am just beginning planning and design on my basement studio, and I have some pretty good ideas thanks to some lurking about on this webiste. At this time unfortunatly I am unable to post any osrts of pictures or graphics, so I need you to use your imagination.
My main room is 26' x 21' (another room is about 14x14, but I'm not worrying about that room yet.) The main room has a structural support beam that runs right down the middle of the long 26' length. It basically bisects the room. The beam itself is 3 2x10s with a metal beam inbetween them - its called a sandwich beam in certain circles. This beam is where I was to divide the room, making my soundroom and an adjacent room. I intend to depart slightly from the corner-control-room design. How do you think I should attach the studs to that beam in order to make the wall AND provide extra structural support? The structural engineer who inspected the house before I bought it mentioned that there was enough support (one metal support pole) to hold up the ceiling and the rest of the house, but it would be better to have some extra support. He said a wall would be novel, and that happened to fit into my plans.
I am a pretty good carpenter, but want to make sure I attach my studwork correctly to that sandwich beam for the best of all worlds.
I know I will probably need to talk to someone in construction business, but I am looking for some advice anyway.. .I am getting ready to head up to Home Depot to start buying some building material.
I will try to post some pictures when I get home this evening.
Thanks in advance for your help,
Kev
Atlanta, Ga
load bearing wall under sandwich beam..
-
graveleye
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:29 am
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Contact:
-
knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
Do you also need this wall to be some degree of soundproof, or are you just looking for structural support? If you're looking for sound isolation, even between this room(s) and the upstairs, then you would need to either put Resilient Channel on one side before the wallboard and build a NON-load-bearing wall frame for the OTHER leaf of the sound wall, or (in this case only) put RC on BOTH sides of this frame so you can decouple both leaves of wallboard from structure.
Since the support wall will have hard contact with your floor/ceiling joists, both sides of that new frame would need to be decoupled or any sound impinging on the wallboard will couple through the frame, into the laminated beam, and into the rest of the house.
Generally, since it's doubtful your floor is perfectly parallel to your ceiling joists or the beam, you would need to put down a layer of 30# roofing felt where the plate of the new wall frame goes, fasten the double caps to the underside of the beam, and cut each stud independently to about 3/32" longer than measured from cap to plate at each stud location (I'd go 16" centers with a 2x6 studwall for this) - mark your centers with a line perpendicular to the plate and an X on the side of that line where the stud will sit; then toenail each stud into place after driving the top into place on it's line using a heavy hammer.
The extra length will compress the building paper and ensure a tight fit at each stud location. Where this is to be a (sort of) load-bearing wall, it wouldn't be practical to build it flat and tip it up; shims just aren't as good as solid contact for this.
Once this is in place, you can follow normal sound isolation practices as found all through this site - check out the REFERENCE section at the top of the construction forum for some good threads to read through... Steve
Since the support wall will have hard contact with your floor/ceiling joists, both sides of that new frame would need to be decoupled or any sound impinging on the wallboard will couple through the frame, into the laminated beam, and into the rest of the house.
Generally, since it's doubtful your floor is perfectly parallel to your ceiling joists or the beam, you would need to put down a layer of 30# roofing felt where the plate of the new wall frame goes, fasten the double caps to the underside of the beam, and cut each stud independently to about 3/32" longer than measured from cap to plate at each stud location (I'd go 16" centers with a 2x6 studwall for this) - mark your centers with a line perpendicular to the plate and an X on the side of that line where the stud will sit; then toenail each stud into place after driving the top into place on it's line using a heavy hammer.
The extra length will compress the building paper and ensure a tight fit at each stud location. Where this is to be a (sort of) load-bearing wall, it wouldn't be practical to build it flat and tip it up; shims just aren't as good as solid contact for this.
Once this is in place, you can follow normal sound isolation practices as found all through this site - check out the REFERENCE section at the top of the construction forum for some good threads to read through... Steve
-
graveleye
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:29 am
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Contact:
Thanks for the reply Steve. Here is a picture of the room finally:
You can see the beam running through the center of the room pretty clearly. I have sort of chosen the area directly in front of that beam as the home for my soundroom - see where the computer monitor is located is approximatly where I want it to be. No worries with the ductwork. It only goes as far as the support post, and I have designs for that at a later time.
My plan is to build a wall underneath the support beam to add some extra support to the floor above - one pole is enough but...
when I initially located the house and had it inspected, the support beam was severely rotated due to settling, and the fact that the house is situated on a steep incline. I had them replace the beam as contingency to buy the house, but there is always a chance that in coming years.. hopefully beyond my residency there, that more shifting may occur. Since I am planning to make the beam dissapear beneath a sheetrocked ceiling/and soffits (RC attached leafs), I want to make sure that the floor is redundantly supported.
I dont think my initial post was very clear and I apologize. I am not up on the construction lingo
In your response, were you meaning to attach the load bearing wall directly to the beam, or to the joists above?
I know much of this is premature - I have only just now made a drawing of the room and havent scanned it yet. I'll try to get that shortly.
Mainly, at this point before I worry with the soundproofing, I am just wanting to make sure I really shore up the floor/ceiling.
Thanks again for you help!!
Kev,
Atlanta Ga
You can see the beam running through the center of the room pretty clearly. I have sort of chosen the area directly in front of that beam as the home for my soundroom - see where the computer monitor is located is approximatly where I want it to be. No worries with the ductwork. It only goes as far as the support post, and I have designs for that at a later time.
My plan is to build a wall underneath the support beam to add some extra support to the floor above - one pole is enough but...
when I initially located the house and had it inspected, the support beam was severely rotated due to settling, and the fact that the house is situated on a steep incline. I had them replace the beam as contingency to buy the house, but there is always a chance that in coming years.. hopefully beyond my residency there, that more shifting may occur. Since I am planning to make the beam dissapear beneath a sheetrocked ceiling/and soffits (RC attached leafs), I want to make sure that the floor is redundantly supported.
I dont think my initial post was very clear and I apologize. I am not up on the construction lingo
In your response, were you meaning to attach the load bearing wall directly to the beam, or to the joists above?
I know much of this is premature - I have only just now made a drawing of the room and havent scanned it yet. I'll try to get that shortly.
Mainly, at this point before I worry with the soundproofing, I am just wanting to make sure I really shore up the floor/ceiling.
Thanks again for you help!!
Kev,
Atlanta Ga
-
graveleye
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:29 am
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Contact:
whoops... apparently yahoo does not like for me to hotlink. Oh well... here is the url fwiw:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/graveleye ... pg&.src=ph
Thanks so much for the drawing. I completely see it now!!!
Thanks again,
Kev
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/graveleye ... pg&.src=ph
Thanks so much for the drawing. I completely see it now!!!
Thanks again,
Kev
Gravity Free Studios
Graveleye Productions, Atlanta, Georgia
Graveleye Productions, Atlanta, Georgia
-
PhiloBeddoe
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:44 am
- Location: Illinois
I have a very similar situation except that my beam is entirely steel and there is no load-bearing requirement. However, I do want the beam to divide the live room from the control room.
I was under the impression that if you had a double studded wall that you didn't need RC, but perhaps that only applies if both walls are floating??
My plan was to only have RC on the ceiling, but adding RC to a wall or walls is no problem.
I plan to post detailed plans when they're ready, but I thought I'd chime in since this is very applicable for me.
One more question, is it ok to use sway braces if the floor is fixed to concrete, i.e. not floated?
I was under the impression that if you had a double studded wall that you didn't need RC, but perhaps that only applies if both walls are floating??
My plan was to only have RC on the ceiling, but adding RC to a wall or walls is no problem.
I plan to post detailed plans when they're ready, but I thought I'd chime in since this is very applicable for me.
One more question, is it ok to use sway braces if the floor is fixed to concrete, i.e. not floated?
-
knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
"I was under the impression that if you had a double studded wall that you didn't need RC, but perhaps that only applies if both walls are floating?? "
Philo, you're correct; if you study the drawing you'll see that the only places I've used RC is where it is needed to decouple inside walls from the structure of the rest of the house; if we were just isolating room to room and using double stud frames, then no RC would be necessary.
In this example, the ceiling framing is part of the whole house structure, so will transmit sound both directions through the drywall unless we decouple it; this is also true of the wallboard fastened to the SUPPORT wall; that wall is now (of necessity) part of the main structure, so will flank sound from/to the above space. By decoupling the wallboard mounted on that frame, you break the flanking path.
The second wall frame should be held short of the ceiling joists by enough NOT to ever contact the joists, which (since there is a support wall very close) should only need to be 1/4" to 1/2" gap - then, if you hang the rock on the WALLs first, you can suspend the ceiling wallboard from RC (this decouples ceiling surface from structure) INSIDE each room's walls; that way, you have no continuous solid mass between rooms, which helps isolation from room to room.
The second frame, if you want REALLY good isolation, should be mounted on a floated floor; in this particular example, the concrete floor will still transmit some sound between rooms and even up to the house if it's loud enough; if the second wall could be floated on an elastomer WITHOUT other fasteners you might improve the isolation, but there's a good chance you would WORSEN isolation without serious calculation of weight, resonance, etc - calculations that are beyond my knowledge at this time. (I'm NOT a structural/vibration engineer, nor do I "Play one on TV" )
Using resilient mounting strips under a wall for sealing purposes is useless; this should be done around the edges of the wall COVERING; such as two layers of wallboard, each layer caulked/sealed before the next goes on.
I'm trying to find more study time in the area of vibration/resonance, etc, and expect to recieve a comprehensive book on the subject any day; but for now that's about the best I can do - I hope this helps... Steve
Philo, you're correct; if you study the drawing you'll see that the only places I've used RC is where it is needed to decouple inside walls from the structure of the rest of the house; if we were just isolating room to room and using double stud frames, then no RC would be necessary.
In this example, the ceiling framing is part of the whole house structure, so will transmit sound both directions through the drywall unless we decouple it; this is also true of the wallboard fastened to the SUPPORT wall; that wall is now (of necessity) part of the main structure, so will flank sound from/to the above space. By decoupling the wallboard mounted on that frame, you break the flanking path.
The second wall frame should be held short of the ceiling joists by enough NOT to ever contact the joists, which (since there is a support wall very close) should only need to be 1/4" to 1/2" gap - then, if you hang the rock on the WALLs first, you can suspend the ceiling wallboard from RC (this decouples ceiling surface from structure) INSIDE each room's walls; that way, you have no continuous solid mass between rooms, which helps isolation from room to room.
The second frame, if you want REALLY good isolation, should be mounted on a floated floor; in this particular example, the concrete floor will still transmit some sound between rooms and even up to the house if it's loud enough; if the second wall could be floated on an elastomer WITHOUT other fasteners you might improve the isolation, but there's a good chance you would WORSEN isolation without serious calculation of weight, resonance, etc - calculations that are beyond my knowledge at this time. (I'm NOT a structural/vibration engineer, nor do I "Play one on TV" )
Using resilient mounting strips under a wall for sealing purposes is useless; this should be done around the edges of the wall COVERING; such as two layers of wallboard, each layer caulked/sealed before the next goes on.
I'm trying to find more study time in the area of vibration/resonance, etc, and expect to recieve a comprehensive book on the subject any day; but for now that's about the best I can do - I hope this helps... Steve
-
PhiloBeddoe
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:44 am
- Location: Illinois
Steve,
Yes, your analysis helps me a lot and is greatly appreciated. Thanks to you and the other contributors for lending your expertise. As you know, it's very difficult to find accurate unbiased information on the art/science of acoustics. Just yesterday I had someone tell me I only needed to line my walls with egg crates and I'd be fine. I challenged him to stand behind some egg crates while I bash away on drums.
Many thanks,
Marc
Yes, your analysis helps me a lot and is greatly appreciated. Thanks to you and the other contributors for lending your expertise. As you know, it's very difficult to find accurate unbiased information on the art/science of acoustics. Just yesterday I had someone tell me I only needed to line my walls with egg crates and I'd be fine. I challenged him to stand behind some egg crates while I bash away on drums.
Many thanks,
Marc