Studio from scratch

[stratcat_nl]

Hi everybody,
After lurking for awhile and reading most of the posts on this forum, I feel it's about time I introduce myself.

I'm musician (guitarist/vocalist). I have my own band and we play mostly original blues rock based stuff. I'm hailing

from the Netherlands.

A long time ago I realized that I really needed a project studio and since I moved into a new house last month, I

finally have some space to make that happen.
Untill now I recorded and mixed in a non-acoustic and sound proof room that was really horrible, but I managed to mix

my last album in there.

Anyway, in the back of my yard I can build something that supposed to be my studio. The size should be around 20'x16'.

All I need is a CR, a vocal booth and a little room where I can mike a small guitar amp.

My initial plan was to build a brick wall garage, but as I can't set bricks myself, I have to hire somebody. The cost of the garage alone will eat my entire budget.

However, I've been thinking about setting up a log cabin on a concrete floor (like this: http://www.tenwinkel.nl/wf00017.html, without the windows). The cabin is made out of 1.7" thick pine.

I understand from all the reading that mass/air/mass is the way to go. I'm planning to make the inner room floating and was wondering if this would work out.

Thank you for your time and your input is highly appreciated. I still feel like a babe in the woods regarding studio construction.....

Thanks,
Coen

[knightfly]

Coen, welcome to the board; babes are fine, we like new people to pick on (Yes, I'm kidding; I'm VERY protective of anyone trying to learn, and don't allow that sort of thing here AT ALL, other than obvious jokes WITH people, not AT them...)

Anyway, here's a few thoughts - if the pine is solid and well sealed, it can be a fair outer leaf - 1.7" pine should just about equal two layers of 5/8" gypsum, possibly a bit more. If you then move inward and put a separate stud frame, hang two layers of gypsum on the inside of this frame, and fill the gap (8" or more is good" with 3 to 6 PCF rigid fiberglass insulation or rockwool, you should get pretty good isolation.

Roofs are usually vented, so that won't work as your outer leaf on top - better to put in MORE vents than called for, and put two MORE separate leaves inside that - the upper one should be continuous with your outer wall, and the inner one continuous with your inner wall in order to get 2-leaf barrier all the way around.

Depending on whether you plan to record drums, and how loud you intend to mix, you might not even need a floated floor if the studio will be on a concrete slab. This would also depend on how loud your neighborhood is, and what kind of noise.

I'm sure the more you lurk the more questions you'll have; bring 'em on, that's what we're here for... Steve

[stratcat_nl]

Thanks for your reply Steve,

As always with stuff like this, every answer raises two more questions...

Anyway, I'm not planning to record drums. We do that kinda field work somewhere else. Mixing will be done at moderate volumes.
The studio will be located in my backyard with the nearest houses 34' feet away.
I live close to a train station (200 yards) and the heavy freighttrains that pass in the evening and during the night could be a problem, so the floating floor might be necessary anyway.
I also love working at night, so good soundproofing is a must.

I didn't quite understand the vents story though.

Coen

[knightfly]

Sorry; most roofs get vented so air can keep the inside dry; if you close those vents, you get a rotting house.

Acoustically, the roof will act like a third leaf in your sound barrier system, even tho it isn't sealed; this will weaken low frequency isolation through the ceiling area. Two things that will help this - one, more vents so the roof can "purge" itself easier, lessening the "3-leaf effect" , and two, heavier mass in the two REAL leaves of your sound barrier.

Your setup would have the plywood you mentioned acting as the outer leaf (trying to ignore the roof) and your old and new inner ceiling wallboard as a 2-layer inner leaf.

Your outer leaf should be continuous; outer wall layers sealed to outer ceiling layers, separate from inner ones (no hard contact) Your inner leaf should ALSO be continuous - inner wall sealed to inner ceiling. INner ceilings of adjacent rooms should be NOT continuous wallboard, but individual suspended ceilings INSIDE their respective inner wall frames, then caulked heavily with acoustic rated caulk.

Hope that clears things up a bit?? Steve

[stratcat_nl]

ah.... I was thinking about the ventilation system for the inside. I got it now.

So what you're basically saying is forgetting the roof, weaken the "third leaf effect" and make a new ceiling for the outer walls.

Well, I guess it's time to go back to the drawing table and make some plans. I have to find out if I need a city permit for building this and next week a friend of mine will drop by to discuss how we're gonna do the concrete floor.

Thanks alot Steve, I'll keep you updated and I'm sure I have more questions later on...

Coen

[ronfromkwon]

Hi Coen and everybody ...
Finance central has given me the go-ahead to build a music room/studio/office, and like Coen, I'm thinking of a log cabin sort of building - so I'm interested in this!

I'm in the process of compiling my wish-list, but I am rather taken with the idea of 3 compartment cabin (e.g. http://www.finnforest.co.uk/countries/c ... ;1988;2746) which gives me a little more storage (above the small room) - although I will go for the largest floor area the budget will stretch to!

Reading around, it looks as though an air flow underneath the floor is needed to cut down problems with damp - so even if there is a solid concrete floor, the cabin needs to have an airsspace underneath (insulated for warmth) .

I'm in a fairly quiet residential area - there is a mainline train track, but it is around a mile from the house (sometimes hear the trains when the wind is in the right direction), although there are plans to put in a tramway a couple of streets away

A good level of sound isolation is a must - my kids want to learn drums!

Of course I have loads of questions - I'm going through the acoustics stuff at the moment, so I'll hold fire on some of them - they have probably been answered - but, if you'll indulge me -

1) I'm a keyboard player and my main setup will be keyboards/synth racks (which are flight cased and "portable"), and I hope to add an organ console (2 manual, 30/32 note pedal board) for practice.

Are there any issues I ought to be aware of if the control room doubles up as my keyboard rig area and office?

2) Are there any recommended sizes for things like vocal booths? (for example, the raw dimensions of the 3rd area in the cabin I referred to is 1.4 x 2.1 m before additional walls and probably 2m high (need to check) -
3) Likewise, I plan on using the main area as a media room and (occasionaly) an overnight room when it is not being used as a live/rehersal room. Again, are there any issues that I need to be aware of?

[sharward]

First of all, I'd like to be the first to welcome you to the board, Ron.

I can certainly understand why you posted on this thread, since you're seeing similarities in your wishes/needs and our friend from Holland here.

However, as both of your plans mature, they may take turns away from each other. For that reason, I recommend that you start your own thread. (And, needless to say, I recommend that you follow both.)

This will allow Coen's thread to be "all about him" and your thread to be "all about you."

By the way, you committed a horrible sin by not telling is where you're located, for which you will be punished severely! (Welll, not really... We're pretty nice people here.) Such would give us a hint as to what the heck "Finance Central" is!

But seriously... You'll definitely want to read (or re-read) the "Before You Post" Post, which you'll notice includes the important step of editing your profile to include a location.

Again, welcome, and we look forward to seeing your post in a thread of its own so that it can get the attention it deserves.

--Keith

[ronfromkwon]

Thanks for the welcome, Keith ... I've been lurking around for quite some time.

I recommend that you start your own thread.

By the way, you committed a horrible sin by not telling is where you're located, for which you will be punished severely!
--Keith

Ok - I had checked my profile but forgot to include my location - usually one of the first things I do when I join a board.

I will create a new thread - maybe in a couple of weeks time - I'm still looking at different cabin suppliers trying to maximize the space.

As for "Finance Central" ... aka my wife! Since I posted the original query, I'm looking into the possibility of including plumbing - yet another consideration!
Ron.

[stratcat_nl]

Well, it's been a while. Sometimes unexpected things happen in your life and you have to concentrate on other things.

Anyway, I didn't do anything regarding my studio. However I decided I won't be using a wood cabin, but have a structure built from brickstones on a concrete slab floor. Not a single row bricks, but like the right pic (called "steens") .
The size of the building is 13.5'x12', but that should do for a CR and vocal booth.

The purpose of the studio is to provide me a space where I can record guitar (either thru a POD or a mic'ed small amp), record vocals and do some basic mixing (NO live drums).
Nearest house is about 40' feet away and I want to keep out the trains of my recordings. The railroad (actually a railstation) is about 600' away.
There's two freighttrains passing this town during the night and they make quite some rumble, but I can live with that.

I'm drawing plans, but I just can't decide what to do yet. I've checked all the STC charts, but can't find a STC rating for a brick wall like mine.

Budget for the interior (isolation and soundproofing) is limited, around $3000, but I can do all the construction work myself.
Any help from this point on will be highly appreciated!

Thanks,
Coen
the Netherlands

[AVare]

With that size in feet have you conmsidered one room?

Witht he brick wall thickness just use the mass law to get a good odea of teh TL.

Andre

[stratcat_nl]

Andre, thank you for your reply.
I have considered one room, but this studio will be used mainly for tracking guitars and vocals, so a vocal booth is needed.

I don't quite understand what you mean with the mass law...

Coen.

edit: nevermind, got the mass law.. found an interesting article on the web in the process:
http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/cbd/cbd239e.html

[AVare]

Good that you got the mass law.

If the building is 12 feet by 13.5 feet, that is just enough for a control room that can made to sound good. If you are going to do guitar and vocal at the same time, use a POD like you wrote previously. That or live with a coloured (sound wise) control room.

Andre

[stratcat_nl]

Well, I need a vocal booth. That's the main purpose of the studio anyway. I don't need a huge booth. Just a acoustically treated space where I can fit a mic and have room to stand will do.

At this point I don't think I'll ever do really serious mixing in the studio. It's main purpose is tracking vocals and guitars.

[stratcat_nl]

Could you people advise me a minimum size for the CR?
I can build this studio from scratch, in a 20' x16' area in the back of my yard.

Unfortunately, the budget does not allow me to use that entire area for a studio.

[Xalky]

If looks are not real important. Poured concrete walls would be a lot cheaper than brick. You could then finish the exterior with stucco.

In my area its probably 25% the cost of brick including labor.