Keeping my kids asleep?

str8slurpn · Post by **str8slurpn** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:58 am

Greetings folks I am very happy I found this place. I am in the thinking about stage of building me a new project studio. (2-3 months) Here is the thing I will have a control room that will be 12x14x7 a mini performance room at 11x12x7.5 and an Iso booth about 3x4x7. the thing about it is my childrens rooms are both directly above each. I have a pair of 20/20bas monitors and plan to get a sub some day, A pair of Old 15" floor speakers and some irrelavent fostex ps-10's. I have a hung ceiling which I have taken the ceiling tiles out of and have a grid. So I have now is the 8 inch floor joists then about 3 to 4 inches of space until the ceiling tiles. I dont really have a budget but I dont want this whole project to be more than a couple thousand if possible. I have been looking into homasote, celotex soundstop, and I have thought maybe durock insulation but pricey in the ceiling would work, but then again I really dont know. My neighbors are far enough away I dont really need to worry. I am in a new house now. I built a similar studio before but it didnt come out quite as good as I had hoped. Was still pretty cool though. But I think taking my time I will get a little better results. I also want to get some good isolation from control to performance room but thats a different day. Wall hasnt been built yet.

Questions

1. What is the best way to isolate the sound from basement to upstairs with or without getting crazy? Keep the kids asleep during late night jam sessions.

2. I think ceiling tiles would be a good way to get a little more air space up there maybe? And what type if any ceiling tiles would work best? They are 2x2.

Any help appreciated
Thanks much.

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:49 pm

Forget all the materials you mentioned above; they cost more and do less than plain old drywall. What does the trick is MASS, and drywall is one of the cheaper high-mass materials going, in most countries.

Ceiling tiles don't work well for sound isolation because you have all these LEAKS between tiles, where the support grid goes.

BEst thing you can do is get rid of everything below your joists, fill with standard un-faced insulation, and hang two layers of 5/8" drywall on resilient mounts directly from your joists. This will add about 4.7 pounds per square foot to your joists, so we'll need to know joist depth, spacing and spans to be sure you're OK.

Here's a sketch of what I'm talking about -

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=13335

besides Resilient Channel, there's a more expensive way using RSIC clips (rubber isolators) and steel hat channel - it's stronger than Resilient Channel, and harder to make mistakes with... Steve

BTW, getting rid of your ceiling grid/tiles will actually let your ceiling be a couple inches HIGHER, and it sounds like you need all the headroom you can get.

If your subfloor is 3/4" OSB with a layer of 1/2" MDF over, putting 2 layers of 5/8 gypsum on RC under your 8" joists with at least 4" of insulation inside, should get you around STC 61 with a low freq TL of around 30 dB @ 50 hZ - for the low end, you'd be at around 85-90 dB in the room before anything could be heard upstairs, even by a wide-awake child. (This is of course assuming you have no FLANKING paths to worry about, like shared concrete walls, HVAC ducting, etc)

HTH... Steve

str8slurpn · Post by **str8slurpn** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:47 am

Great that sounds even better than them nasty old tiles anyway. Cheaper too. I do have 1 duct that runs to 1 of my kids rooms in that ceiling its a 6" steel vent. Anything to do about that?? Thanks for the help. I would be lost, broke, and pissed without this place.

Thanks..

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:01 am

Insulate around the duct and box it in with at least two layers of tightly sealed/caulked gypsum; you can use standard house insulation (fiberglass, NOT the EPS foam board stuff) - if you will have mineral wool for acoustic treatment, use that instead for insulating around the duct before the gypsum... Steve

str8slurpn · Post by **str8slurpn** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:34 am

Darn I forgot about the main A/C vent that runs through the middle of the room, its like 1ft by 8 in and goes right down the middle of the room. This is gonna be only in the live room. Its the main vent that goes to every room in the house. Ive currently got the bathroom above it ripped out to the joists. Its got a drywall already finished around it from the bottom end. Rip it out and redo?

Also Where do I get RC , and how much does it cost. I swear I've been searching the forum but cant find it. Learnin a lot of other good stuff though.

I have heard people here talk about RC-1 and I saw what they called RC-8 at the Auralex site. (No prices) Is this defferent?

Is soundstop the same idea of dampening vibrations to the stud, and is it as good

You say enclose the vent in gypsum with insulation. Do you mean make a square around the vent? This would be hard because I only have about an inch on each side. Or just put 2 layers on the botom under the vent before the RC and gypsum?

Thanks much, getting real pumped about this, might start even sooner than planned.

You guys rock

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:56 am

Darn I forgot about the main A/C vent that runs through the middle of the room, its like 1ft by 8 in and goes right down the middle of the room. This is gonna be only in the live room. Its the main vent that goes to every room in the house. Ive currently got the bathroom above it ripped out to the joists. Its got a drywall already finished around it from the bottom end. Rip it out and redo?

Depends on a lot of variables; if possible, post a pic so we can see what you mean.

Also Where do I get RC , and how much does it cost. I swear I've been searching the forum but cant find it.

Check with local drywall/insulation suppliers; I've found it locally from a few of those.

I have heard people here talk about RC-1 and I saw what they called RC-8 at the Auralex site. (No prices) Is this defferent?

RC-1 was the original USG part #, no longer made. RC-8 is Auralex' version of that, costs several TIMES what you can buy locally for. Dietrich make a good choice if it's available locally

http://www.dietrichindustries.com/produ ... _46-47.pdf

(The RC Deluxe is what you want, note the difference in perforation on the slanted part of the piece)

Is soundstop the same idea of dampening vibrations to the stud, and is it as good

It can help a bit, but it's cheaper and better to (instead) put another layer of gypsum wallboard, and use insulation in light contact with the inside wallboard for damping.

You say enclose the vent in gypsum with insulation. Do you mean make a square around the vent? This would be hard because I only have about an inch on each side. Or just put 2 layers on the botom under the vent before the RC and gypsum?

Yes, that's what I meant; again, a pic would make things easier for everyone... Steve

str8slurpn · Post by **str8slurpn** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:10 am

Greetings guys, been sidetracked for a while.

here are some pics

Thanks much

str8slurpn · Post by **str8slurpn** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:17 am

That pic above is the frame, and inside on the left is a steel I beam, and on the right side is the ac duct that runs through the center of the house. Theres about 18 inches of dead space between. The very left side of that thing is where the wall needs to be to separate the Control room from the performance room.

str8slurpn · Post by **str8slurpn** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:23 am

As you can see there isnt a whole lot of room between the joist to enclose the vent with gypsum. What did you mean by enclosing the vent. A square around it or just 2 sheets at the bottom before the rc and sheet rock?

Thanks sorry about all the posts, I lost all my typing 2 times already screwing around. this forum

str8slurpn · Post by **str8slurpn** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:33 am

This is the wall to the room adjacent to the control room, im ready to do this side of the wall with 2 layers 5/8. What kind of spacing is best for the studs, and should I use RC on both sides of the wall? Should I use 2x4's or would 2x6 be a significant increase in n/r. Thanks.

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:04 pm

First thing I need to know - what size are your joists, and how far between supports (span)?

for your round ducts, about all you can do is hang RSIC-04 clips under your joists, install hat channel in the clips, and put two layers of 5/8 gypsum on the channel. You would need to stuff around your ducts and in all other cavities with un-faced fiberglass insulation (the fluffy stuff) so it rests against the ducts AND lays on the gypsum for damping.

For your wall, are you planning on single frame or double? Removing what's there, or adding to it? Best isolation is with double frames, putting wallboard ONLY on ONE side of EACH frame, large air space between, filled with fiberglass insulation... Steve

str8slurpn · Post by **str8slurpn** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:36 am

Joists on the ceiling are 7 1/4 by 1 3/4. Spacing is at 14 1/2 inches.

On the wall between the control room and the family room should I pop up the 2 layers of gypsum on 2 by 4's now. I have to get this family room done first says the ball and chain. Then build another frame on the other side when I get to it? What is the best air space I should use? I am willing (I guess) to give up 12 inches. Is that enough. I want to be able to be bumping the fifteens as un-noticeably as possible, then when you open the door BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! I dont know how unrealistic I am being here.

Thanks

str8slurpn · Post by **str8slurpn** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:51 am

Sorry Im being so vague, Ill go with the double frame I guess, I will remove the drywall thats there to put up new, but probably leave the studs.

Of course the door is gonna be the weak link, I did like your idea about the hollow core door with mdf on both sides, If I cant find some good solid core doors Im probably going to build some like that. Im going to need about 6 total, that really hurts the funds just for doors.

Thanks

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:43 am

If you can post a sketch (floor plan) it will help; otherwise, I'm never sure we're communicating. Try for enough detail that I could take your sketch and build what you have from it... Steve