Hi,
I have a basement studio with open joists from the floor above, the bottoms of which are at 7'6" (approx 2.3 m). I have gas, electrical, and maybe some water lines running along the bottoms (grrr!) of many of these joists, so, unless I want to re-run all that conduit/piping, I have just under 7'6" to work with. The HVAC is also between or across joists, but I WILL be moving/replacing much of those ducts with flexible ducting. What are my best options here?
Thanks, all,
-Greg
Low ceiling - suggestions?
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Ethan Winer
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Re: Low ceiling - suggestions?
Greg,
If you don't care about isolation between you and the room above, your best bet is to fill the space between the joists completely with fiberglass. The thicker the better. This leaves the full height as is, and also gives you great treatment. When you have an absorbent ceiling you'll probably want a reflective floor, which can be anything from bare or painted cement to fancy wood tiles.
--Ethan
If you don't care about isolation between you and the room above, your best bet is to fill the space between the joists completely with fiberglass. The thicker the better. This leaves the full height as is, and also gives you great treatment. When you have an absorbent ceiling you'll probably want a reflective floor, which can be anything from bare or painted cement to fancy wood tiles.
--Ethan
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WikidG
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:16 pm
- Location: IL, USA
Ethan,
Thanks a lot for the info. I will be putting up some sort of actual ceiling as well, I just don't want to lose a lot of space. I don't know what the acoustical minimum or best heights (besides no ceiling at all) are. I start with 7'6" - aside from filling between the joists, everything else I do will lessen that height.
I DO want to insulate from the floor(s) above, both in and out. From what I've gathered, I should be able to get a decent reduction with:
Fiberglass insulation to bottom of joists (~6")
2" air gap between joists and drywall
1 or 2 layers of drywall (maybe second layer attached to first via furring strips and resilient channel)
1" air gap
2-3" fiberglass insulation
drop ceiling
I'd like to include something like the Auralex SoundBlok, but that will deifinitely put me over budget.
Either way, this brings my ceiling down to a scary 6'9" (approx 2.1 m). That's low even without considering acoustics; I'm curious what that height does to the room sound (and if my ceiling ideas are "sound" - sorry ;-D).
-Greg
Thanks a lot for the info. I will be putting up some sort of actual ceiling as well, I just don't want to lose a lot of space. I don't know what the acoustical minimum or best heights (besides no ceiling at all) are. I start with 7'6" - aside from filling between the joists, everything else I do will lessen that height.
I DO want to insulate from the floor(s) above, both in and out. From what I've gathered, I should be able to get a decent reduction with:
Fiberglass insulation to bottom of joists (~6")
2" air gap between joists and drywall
1 or 2 layers of drywall (maybe second layer attached to first via furring strips and resilient channel)
1" air gap
2-3" fiberglass insulation
drop ceiling
I'd like to include something like the Auralex SoundBlok, but that will deifinitely put me over budget.
Either way, this brings my ceiling down to a scary 6'9" (approx 2.1 m). That's low even without considering acoustics; I'm curious what that height does to the room sound (and if my ceiling ideas are "sound" - sorry ;-D).
-Greg
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knightfly
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
Too many air gaps there - any time you deviate from two mass, one air gap you shoot yourself in the foot (or ear) - if you beef up the upper floor leaf, it should be with layers of sheet rock AGAINST and GLUED to the upper floor - held in with cleats as necessary. Then, fluffy fiberglas compressed to about 1/2 thickness against the upper panel, rigid (either mineral wool or fiberglas in the middle, and more fluffy stuff compressed slightly against the bottom mass (which can be multiple layers of sheet rock
The soft fiberglas against the panels helps dampen them for better sound control. The rigid insulation helps absorb sound. The combination of both kinds/places can add 9-10 dB of quieting to a barrier.
If you can't move any pipes, you can get adjustable iso-hangers for a suspended ceiling or "hat" channel, that are strong enough to support multiple layers of sheet rock. Grid type suspended ceilings are harder to seal, so the chance of leakage is greater.
Some ideas -
http://www.kineticsnoise.com/architectu ... ation.html
http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/prod ... /clips.asp
Acoustical Solutions charges $5 per clip, the identical thing is $10 at other sites so shop around if you go this way. Download their install guide - when used with hat channel, most of the centers can be up to 48", so it's not as expensive as it first seems... Steve
The soft fiberglas against the panels helps dampen them for better sound control. The rigid insulation helps absorb sound. The combination of both kinds/places can add 9-10 dB of quieting to a barrier.
If you can't move any pipes, you can get adjustable iso-hangers for a suspended ceiling or "hat" channel, that are strong enough to support multiple layers of sheet rock. Grid type suspended ceilings are harder to seal, so the chance of leakage is greater.
Some ideas -
http://www.kineticsnoise.com/architectu ... ation.html
http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/prod ... /clips.asp
Acoustical Solutions charges $5 per clip, the identical thing is $10 at other sites so shop around if you go this way. Download their install guide - when used with hat channel, most of the centers can be up to 48", so it's not as expensive as it first seems... Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...
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Ethan Winer
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1063
- Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:50 am
- Location: New Milford, CT, USA
- Contact:
Greg,
Steve knows more than I do about isolation, so follow his advice there. But I will say that the best way to counter a low ceiling is to make it totally absorbent. Acoustically, a fully absorbent ceiling is identical to an infinitely high ceiling. The thicker and denser the absorption - usually rigid fiberglass - the lower in frequency the "virtually infinite height" extends to.
--Ethan
Steve knows more than I do about isolation, so follow his advice there. But I will say that the best way to counter a low ceiling is to make it totally absorbent. Acoustically, a fully absorbent ceiling is identical to an infinitely high ceiling. The thicker and denser the absorption - usually rigid fiberglass - the lower in frequency the "virtually infinite height" extends to.
--Ethan
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knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
Greg, Ethan's right about treatment for low ceilings - but in your case, you'll almost have to choose between isolation and good sound. The only way I can think of to get some of each, is to use the plan that was abandoned here -
http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=475
Be sure and read my reasons for NOT doing this if you can avoid it - in your case, if you can live with less isolation between floors it will make your room sound much better, as Ethan pointed out... Steve
http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=475
Be sure and read my reasons for NOT doing this if you can avoid it - in your case, if you can live with less isolation between floors it will make your room sound much better, as Ethan pointed out... Steve
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...