Float my Boat?

tommypenngotti · Post by **tommypenngotti** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:49 pm

hello all, I have a 20X20 recording detached garage studio conversion that was constructed this way: room within a room

outer wall = siding> 2x4 studs>R-19 insulation>5/8 rock

6" of air

inner wall = 2x4 studs> 1/2 " rock > R-19 > 1/2" rock

ceiling same as walls (room within room)

floor = slab>underlayment> pergo (no float)

www.matthiasrocks.com/images_studio.html

neighbors approx 60-70ft away say they slightly hear "bass"

I have not yet sound metered...I mainly have rehearsals w/ bass/guitar/drums....I need more isolation to kill the neighbor noise

I have recently been contemplating the www.supressproducts.com sound engineered drywall (8x as good as regular rock for supressing noise) however it aint cheap @ $123 a sheet!!

or floating my floor....I'm leaning towards the float ...& if that doesn't help enough , then more mass w/ the drywall

any thoughts greatly appreciated!

thanks

matthias
www.matthiasrocks.com

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:35 pm

Mathias, start at the very top thread in this forum and follow all the bold points, including editing your profile to include your location; that thread also points you to the REFERENCE section, and if you read the first 3 or 4 threads there you'll see that what you need to do is STOP adding more materials and using up more of your available space, and learn about mass-air-mass construction.

For a classic example of how well this works, check out this thread

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4400

and this one

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sc&start=0

Particularly just over halfway down on page 7.

Hope this helps... Steve

Ro · Post by Ro » Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:19 am

Cool, I've checked them links again and thought "why not add a sticky with links to finished projects?" (within the Studio Construction section ofcourse)

how 'bout it steve/john ?

tommypenngotti · Post by **tommypenngotti** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:45 am

I have updated my local, paranoid of stalkers!

so I received this from Rod about my construction , which incidentally I received much advice about the construction from various sound experts before I dove full force into recording.org & this site

matthias,

you really screwed yourself here. You probably would be in pretty goo shape if you had rearranged your drywall.

You've built a 4 leaf wall assembly with your construction - which is good for maybe R 40 or thereabouts - this because those 2 sheets in the cavity should not be there.

Floating floor is most probably not going to give you anything - I don't believe you've reached the point where flanking thrugh the slab would take over.

And you have no guarantees that adding mass to the inside will get you there either.

Unfortunately your real solution isn't anything you will want to hear - because it's remove the inner layer of 1/2" - then remove the insulation - then cut out the layer of 1/2" and 5/8" in the wall cavity - then remove the insulation in the outside wall - the install 5/8" tight up against the exterior sheathing inside of the stud cavities - and caulk the edges (2 layers would be even better)

The reinstall the insulation for both walls - then add your inner drywall - preferably 2 layers of 5/8", this will raise your wall isolation by about 15 to 20dB.

Rod

anyone care to jump in before I start over & rip down my walls ??

I plan to get a db meter & run the perimeter w/ bass cranked to find offensive spots, again , I'm sitting on a slab w/ hardly anything in between , seems logical that my neighbors could be getting some bass transmitted courtesy of the ground?

& will 15-20 DB reduction be worth the effort to start over ....will that quiet the DB enough from my 60 ft away neighbors, I'd do it if it keeps me open @ 4am to play!

thanks! ....I'm a busy touring entertainer & Dad who doesn't have much time to read through all these wonderful posts...I know it has cost me & I accept that...

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:29 pm

Rod and I are in complete agreement here; I'm not saying I was the first to recommend adding gypsum inserts between studs on outer walls for more mass, but I do know I'd not seen anyone else recommend this before I did; I do know it works, although it can be tedious. One way to save a bit doing this is to re-use your old wallboard - careful demolition by cutting just over the tops of the studs will allow you to reuse your gypsum as inserts. Check out about page 7 or so of Sharward's thread for more on this.

Whether or not I "pioneered" the "insert" thing (don't know) I do know that Rod's taught me a lot about things I already thought I knew, just in the last few years I've known him - I also know he won't steer you wrong, no matter how painful the answer may be.

IF you were only interested in isolating VOCALS, you might actually get away with leaving all those extra masses between your innermost and your outermost wall leaves; but for bass, which is the bane of all musicians trying to peacefully co-exist with their neighbors, what Rod and I have independently told you is what will get the job done.

And, since bass is the most difficult thing to stop, if you fix THAT then you won't even have to worry about the REST of the spectrum... Steve

tommypenngotti · Post by **tommypenngotti** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:00 am

agreed! I am in the process of putting together a new plan to redo the whole room re-using the old rock like you mentioned. The only issue is the ceiling was constructed the same way & redoing that is a nightmare due to we'd have to rip it down as opposed to making a whole & climbing in to fix. & of course there's ...will all of this be a noticeable DB drop!!

thanks 4 the help!

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:57 am

I flat guarantee that if you effectively move ALL your mass to the two leaves that are furthest apart, and only fill in between with framing and/or insulation, that you will be amazed. (By "all", I mean your ceiling/roof as well as the walls)

Results don't lie... Steve

tommypenngotti · Post by **tommypenngotti** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:58 pm

Steve , what's the breakdown as far as cost & effectiveness if I go cement ceiling/wall plan...& how much more mass do I need after an initial layer of cement / blocks ....bass & drums etc...thanks

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:11 am

I'd need more info than that - can you do a sketch of your intentions, including dimensions of each layer so I have half a chance of getting close? Thanks... Steve

tommypenngotti · Post by **tommypenngotti** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:32 pm

please refer to the 1st message in this string to see the info on my room....

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:35 pm

I see that part; but there's no indication of what you mean by "if I go cement ceiling/wall plan...& how much more mass do I need after an initial layer of cement / blocks" - that's why I asked about your INTENTIONS.

IOW, where would the blocks go in relation to your existing construction, are you talking about adhesive (or Green Glue) when you say "cement", or are you talking about Concrete? Or maybe dry stacked, surface bonded block outer walls OUTSIDE your existing, or??

The possible interpretations of words are why we prefer a few sketches and pix; it's a lot harder to misinterpret... Steve

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