2x12 Speaker Cab Isolation - Need Advice

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:31 am

I have a small 1 room studio. I use a THD hotplate to attenuate the volume of my guitar cab but I would like to iso;late the cabinet to make recording the guitar in the same room more of a joy and to gain a few extra hours of the day to record without disturbing the rest of the house as much.

Can anyone offer any plans I could use to accomplish this?

I usually mic the cab with 2 mics.

Thank you.

len-morgan · Post by **len-morgan** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:24 am

You might check out the Electronic Musician Magazine web site. The had an article a couple of months ago about just this subject.

len

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:52 am

Thanks Len,
I did read that. However, I am hoping to construct something myself that I can put my 2x12 cabinet in. This is not to totally isolate the sound but make it much more user friendly in my little room studio.

I have a THD Hotplate but I'd like to isolate it more.

I am considering a Gamma isolator pad as well for the cab.

len-morgan · Post by **len-morgan** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:35 pm

All you'd really have to do then is build a "studio in a box." Use the same principles you'd use for building a room (i.e., mass, mass, mass) and then probably line the inside with 703 or MW and cover it with cloth.

You'll have to take the same precautions you'd take with a room like making sure it's air tight, handling the mic connections so you don't loose isolation there. You might put a plate on the inside with a couple of XLR connectors and then wind them around between the mass layers and then have another plate on the opposite side of the box so it didn't leak that way.

Do the same with the power connection (be careful here!) and you'll be all set.

As a last suggestion, if you have a split amp/speaker setup you might consider operating the amp outside the box so you can work the knobs and because it won't overheat inside the box.

len

Post by **kendale** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:49 pm

Aloha,

Would one of these help?

AxeTrak® - http://www.jlhproducts.com/axetrak/main.asp
DEMETER SSC-1 Silent Speaker Chamber - http://www.demeteramps.com/
Randall IsoCab - http://www.randallamplifiers.com/produc ... /index.asp

Speaker Isolation Box Design - http://www.amptone.com/g234.htm

Aloha

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:37 am

Aloha Kendale,
Purchasing one of those, probably the Randall, has entered my mind. However, I'm thinking I could make something for under $100 assuming I could use some materials I may already have.

I have looked at the amptone design but I am not confident it has been validated by someone of great experience. Plus I think it actually is a massive beast! I'm hoping for a better design.

This might create some good ideas.

Well I have to ask...... What's it like living in Hawaii!?

Living in Michigan, my wife and I always dream of packing up the family and moving there. Of course we need to eat and have a place to live. I always wondered what the job market would be like?

Post by **kendale** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:43 am

Aloha Warrior,

Well I have to ask...... What's it like living in Hawaii!?
Living in Michigan, my wife and I always dream of packing up the family and moving there. Of course we need to eat and have a place to live. I always wondered what the job market would be like?

Some say it's expensive, but that depends on where/what you're comparing it to. Being that I have the opportunity to meet alot of people, it appears that it's no more expensive than parts of Califfornia & New York areas. There's always the higher/lower areas to be found, but for the most part, it seems comparable.

Hawaii (pronounced Haa-vai-eee) is a group of islands that offer a range of lifestyle environments to choose from - your typical city (Honolulu - 899,593, Maui - 138,221, Big Island (Hawaii) 162,971, Kauai - 61,929) along with it's smaller rural towns throughout.

Our biggest industry is the Visitor Industry, so something associated it with that area is where you'll find your best job market. The resorts offer jobs in management, service, entertainment. there's ocean activities (diving/dinner cruises, surfing), tours of the island (bus, small aircraft/helicopters, guided), and the building industry is at an all time high.

Among the most frequent comments I hear is the issue of distance from other family members and what some have called "rock fever" (being on a somewhat smaller land mass and not being able to drive from state to state.) It's not that small (8-10 hours to do the Big Island where I'm at) but mostly it's the "thought" of not being able to do it.

Weather-wise, it's about the mid 70's to low 80's during the winter, low 90's in the summer (and currently it's 84 degrees under blue skies, tradewinds 5-10 mph in Waikoloa.)

If you ever make it out, stop by and say hello.

Aloha

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Mon May 01, 2006 3:48 am

The amptone idea sounds to me like brute force instead of design - no mention of m-a-m construction, etc, just MASS. If you want maximum portability and are willing to spend $400, the Axe Trak makes the most sense. However, read ALL their FAQ's CAREFULLY; if you build your own SMALL enclosure, you'll have "fun" trying to find the sweet spot, since a smaller enclosure requires proportiately LESS MIC MOVEMENT to make a change in sound quality.

If you want to DIY and need maximum isolation, just follow Len's recommendations (and pertinent ways to get there, in the REFERENCE section of the Construction forum)

You mentioned using two mics; it'll be difficult to do this inside a smaller enclosure and still maintain the 3:1 distance rule... Steve

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Wed May 03, 2006 3:10 am

Thank you all for your replies. I have to admit I am a little overwhelmed with the amount of information in the reference are of the Construction forum. I didn't see anything titled "Studio in a box" and I assume this term was meant to be basically following the guidelines of building a studio only smaller.

Please excuse my ignorance. Would I follow the framing, drywall, insulating and sealing guidelines in that forum? Would this include floating the "box" to eliminate coupling? It would be sitting on a carpet floor.

Also, would anyone be willing to estimate what size box I would need to build to utilize 2 mics with my 2x12 cabinet?

Tha cabinet is a Carvin 2x12 C212E

Two Celestion G12 Vintage 30 60w speakers
8ohm cabinet
Dimensions: 26""W x 10.25""D x 17.5""H

My goal is to make the cabinet to allow access to the mics and cabinet. Total isolation would be nice but some sound coming from the cabinet would be OK.

The Amp Head will be seperate from the cabinet.

len-morgan · Post by **len-morgan** » Wed May 03, 2006 4:53 am

Do you use two mics, one on each speaker or one close and one to pick up the "room?" If it's the latter, I'd suggest adding the "room" with a plugin outside the box. If you use one on each speaker, is that to get stereo or is there that much of a difference between them?

You'd have trouble getting any room sound in a small box. When I said to build a "studio-in-a-box" I did mean to use the same techniques you'd use if you were building a big studio from scratch. You are making the same amount of sound in a little box as you'd want to isolate if you wanted to play it in a studio so the building techniques would be the same. This would mean double walls completely isolated from each other. Your biggest problem I think would be leaving the speakers inside the box 24/7. If you could get the speakers out when you are not playing, you could use maybe 4" MW on the "floor" of the outer box to decouple the inner box. If you leave it in there all the time, I'm afraid that over time it would compress to the point where it would have no effect.

If the cabinet is heavy, you might be able to get enough compression (20 to 25%) using small exercise mats on the bottom between the two boxes.

The other area you have to concentrate on would be the door for access to the mics. Here, you'd use the same techniques as you would for a regular studio door. In other words, thick and dense (maybe three layers of 3/4" MDF) and "step" and seal each layer of the door so it looks like a bank vault door.

If you want to experiment, you might make just the outside box, with maybe 3/4" plywood on the outside and a couple of layers of 5/8" drywall under that. Line it with 703 or MW and build a good door system then try it out. If that works, finish off the fiberglass with a cloth cover and you're done. If you need more isolation, you can build another box just like it (but inside out) to fit inside of the first one. Just make sure you make the first "test" box big enough to hold the inner box if you need it.

len

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Wed May 03, 2006 12:42 pm

Len,
I use a dynamic mic and a condensor mic. One on each speaker. This is to get a blend of the 2 mics. Not for the room sound.

I'd prefer to be able to leave the cabinet in the box unless I was playing out. I don't know if I would be better off building it with a seperate speaker instead of trying to use my cabinet in it. Kind of like the boxes you had in your links.

Lots of good info in your post. I'll be reading over that several times.

Thank you.