Not enough bass ?

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:06 am

Usually the studio rooms have problems with excessive bass and all possible means are used to reduce it. In my room I have a feeling (and especially the clients and visitors) that they do not hear enough bass ... (although the B&W 801 Matrix speakers certainly do not lack the bass).
I know, when people are used to listening in home conditions with boomy bass acoustics and on home hifi systems, it sounds quite different than in an acoustically treated studio room - there you may feel everything sounds a bit "flat".

Anyway what I noticed is: when I move towards a side facing one of the speakers, I immediately hear more bass. When moving back to the centered position, the bass is less. The most intensive bass can be perceived when stand close to the side walls (outside the speakers range).

Is it normal or does it say that something is wrong in the room ? If yes, can it be corrected somehow to get more bass in the middle ? I am not an acoustic expert but I thought unlike highs and mids, the bass in not directional a should be spread evenly in all directions ? Maybe I am wrong ...

I have corner superchunks in all the corners.

The room size is 7 x 4,6 x 3,5 m

Thanks for some tips and comments ...

[/i]

garlo · Post by **garlo** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:31 am

x cuse me, but of course you checked your phase ?

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:38 am

garlo wrote:x cuse me, but of course you checked your phase ?

Do you mean inside the DAW ?

jwl · Post by **jwl** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:36 am

no, he means that your speakers may be wired out of phase.

What you are describing sounds exactly like a classic out-of-phase wiring problem.

Try switching the speaker cable (ie, reversing the polarity) on one speaker and see if the situation improves.

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:42 am

Even if red/black connectors are properly connected and paired on both ends ? Isn´t it dangerous for a speaker to interchange these connectors ?

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:35 am

Hi Ivo - and welcome to the forum.

Firstly I have to agree with Garlo and Jwl, however, since we now have four nationalities, and three base languages on this, could I just put 'my six eggs in' and ask:

If you play a mix that you have produced in your room, on your standard Hi-Fi, and all sounds ok, do you ever get a strange feeling when you take that same mix back to your room and play it, that sometimes it sounds almost as if you're hearing it from 'inside' your head rather than from your speakers depending on where you stand?

Hope my question makes sense!

Regards,

Lou.

jwl · Post by **jwl** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:07 am

Hi Ivo,

it's not dangerous at all, provided you turn off your power amplifier before you try it. All that will happen is your drivers will move out-of-phase compared to how they were moving previously.

In other words:

1. turn off the power amp
2. switch the red and black connectors at the speaker, on ONE SPEAKER ONLY.
3. once you have a good connection, power the amp back up, and give your system a listen.

It should sound quite different in the low end, esp when you are right at the center. The question is, is there MORE or LESS bass? If there is more, then it means that your speakers are now in phase. If there is less, it means your speakers are now out of phase, you should "undo" the above procedure and look elsewhere for a solution to your problem.

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:08 am

Hi Lou,

thank you for your comments. First of all I happily learnt that increasing the perceived bass amount towards the side walls is absolutely normal within the laws of physics ... This was my main concern...

My worries were stimulated yesterday when a local quite famous rock musician was here to remaster his album and was commenting the lack of bass he hears here ... Today I made quite a few listening sessions and found that the great sounding records sound great here including a nice full bass ... When I compared the mix from yesterday to some really good rock mixes, it was clear that it sounded a bit flat and thin, so no wonder there was not much bass to hear, but for sure he could hear a bit more of it in his home conditions.

When I put on something like this: www.savita.me.cz/show/burundi.mp3 my heart starts vibrating in the neck by this bass massage ... so there is apparently some bass present here ...

I did as you suggested and listened to a record in the other untreated room on a good Panasonic hifi tower ... and then listened to the same in my studio room ... well it sounded much fuller, better and more detailed in my studio, so I think I am not worried any more ...

Anyway I could maybe try a simple "measuring" test recording a progressing sinus wave between 20-300Hz in few listening positions and see the recorded response ...[/url]

jwl · Post by **jwl** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:14 am

Good to hear, Ivo... though if it were me I'd still run the test I outline above... it will just take a few minutes and then you'll be sure....

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:24 am

jwl wrote:Good to hear, Ivo... though if it were me I'd still run the test I outline above... it will just take a few minutes and then you'll be sure....

I did and for sure I was in the right phase, after changing the cables the sound was much worse .... Thank you

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:33 am

Ok Ivo, Jwl is right on the 'button' with this one, the thing that concerns me however, (I hope Jwl and Garlo agree!) is that a system wired out of phase can produce the most incredibly wierd sound that you almost jump when you hear it and say either, F***, or ''That's out of phase".

Because you mentioned your knowledge of physics, I'm sure you'd have noticed such a phenomonen earlier!

Regards,

Lou.
(Sorry Guys - just got in a little too late - at least we now know it's not a phase issue.)

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:36 am

Lou wrote: Because you mentioned your knowledge of physics,

No

I meant that others assured me that this phenomenon is within the laws of physics ... For sure I have a bit more knowledge of music than physics

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:47 am

Hi again Ivo we're all in chatroom mode at the moment!

Right - I must point out that I'm new here and not qualified to comment, however I hope I've learned something from the last 8 months of hours on these forums, the SAE site Rod's book etc.

Q: How far away are your monitors from your back wall?

Q: How far away are they from each of the left and right walls?

Q: How far apart are they?

Don't panic, I don't think from your first pic this is a geometry issue, but I may have a really lame idea.

Regards.

Lou.
(One other thing - please forgive me I don't recognise your monitors!

sorry)
Lastly - (promise) does the 3.5m refer to your width or height? I suspect width!

)

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:56 am

Lou wrote: Q: How far away are your monitors from your back wall?

Q: How far away are they from each of the left and right walls?

Q: How far apart are they?

1) about 25 cm
2) 110 cm (more than half of them is directing towards an absorbing bass trap
3) 190 cm measured in the middle of the mid speaker
4) I am sitting about 190-200 cm from the middle of each of the mid speakers

The monitors are Bowers&Wilkins Matrix 801 S3. The room width is 4,6 m, the heght 3,5 m, the length 7 m ...

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:03 am

Don't answer the last question! I can see it's height!

You should know, I'm writing two other posts at the same time, so may have to go quiet in a mo!

Regards,

Lou.